Campaign to save John Wayne's "The Alamo"

[Little Caesar]

The Digital Bits website has started a grass-roots campaign to urge MGM to restore John Wayne's film "The Alamo." The shocking details about why this restoration is needed may be found at this link:
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/columns/m ... 52814_1330
Also, here is a facebook page that was recently started:
https://www.facebook.com/savethealamo
Admittedly, "The Alamo" is not John Wayne's best film, but the film does have some historical and cultural significance.

[Spiny Norman]

Oh yes, apparently it was once restored but only for Laserdisc and not for posterity (the restoration result was not saved on film or any other professional carrier).

[Bob Furem]

As a film enthusiast whose politics John Wayne would detest, even I would dearly love to see this film restored. Should be a no-brainer for MGM. Few films cut such a wide swath of interest as this movie. MGM would sell a ton of these with good marketing. Scott Eyman's wonderful new Wayne biography has done a good job of piquing my interest.

[s.w.a.c.]

Heck, maybe they could try doing something with the roadshow version of Hawaii while they're at it!

Oh, wait, they're not at it. Never mind.

[Marr&Colton]

The details are not furnished as to the condition of this film, other than a faded 70mm frame. So are they telling us the 70mm negative is in need of restoration--or 35mm?

Practically ALL Eastman (Metrocolor) color elements for all films done in that decade are seriously faded unless there were separation negatives that color prints could be reconstructed from--or digital restoration to bring the color back in a digital master.

MGM released a DVD edition of this film in 2007, so they probably assume that is good enough.

[azjazzman]

The details are not furnished as to the condition of this film, other than a faded 70mm frame. So are they telling us the 70mm negative is in need of restoration--or 35mm?

Practically ALL Eastman (Metrocolor) color elements for all films done in that decade are seriously faded unless there were separation negatives that color prints could be reconstructed from--or digital restoration to bring the color back in a digital master.

MGM released a DVD edition of this film in 2007, so they probably assume that is good enough.

What exactly are the differences between the LaserDisc and the DVD versions? I seem to recall the same thing with "1776". The LaserDisc has scenes in it that were not included in the DVD release for some reason.

[Little Caesar]

The details are not furnished as to the condition of this film, other than a faded 70mm frame. So are they telling us the 70mm negative is in need of restoration--or 35mm?

Practically ALL Eastman (Metrocolor) color elements for all films done in that decade are seriously faded unless there were separation negatives that color prints could be reconstructed from--or digital restoration to bring the color back in a digital master.

MGM released a DVD edition of this film in 2007, so they probably assume that is good enough.

Here's an update to the situation:
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/columns/m ... 53014_1445
This excerpt from the update provides some details about the film's condition:
According to Robert [Harris], all versions of The Alamo are currently endangered. The film’s original 65mm elements are essentially gone, both for the 202-minute roadshow version and the 167-minute cut down version. The roadshow version could possibly still be salvaged in a half-decent home video version, but it's no longer possible to restore it to anything remotely like original quality. Sadly, the same is also true of the 167-minute version created by UA, because the original negatives can no longer be printed to anything viewable. According to Robert: “All that remains [of The Alamo] are old 35mm dupes, which do not represent the film as a large format epic, and even those elements are less than stellar.”

[Bob Furem]

I'm sure this is a dumb question, but here goes? If the roadshow version of the Alamo was released on Laserdisc, why not use a pristine copy as a source and make a blu-ray out of it? Perfect solution? Nope, but it will get the film out there. Every film in the universe is not going to get a perfect restoration. For the time being, until better elements come to light, I would be happy to purchase such a blu-ray.

[s.w.a.c.]

If the roadshow version of the Alamo was released on Laserdisc, why not use a pristine copy as a source and make a blu-ray out of it?

Because it would look dreadful. The thing to do would be to track down the video master for that release, if it still exists, but I doubt it would look any better on a blu-ray than it would on a DVD.

[Spiny Norman]

The internet suggests TCM has a copy for television.

They can't offer a bluray based on a laserdisc, they might as well download a youtube video and convert that to bluray. The blow-up would be obvious. That is why there is no Star Warts original cut on bluray either.

[Phototone]

LaserDisc was resolution limited to 480i. The limit of resolution on NTSC television. Any video master intended for LaserDisc is in 480i. the HD standard of 1080i or 1080P was not around, the equipment was not available to encode film at that resolution when the video master was made for The Alamo. The film elements have further degraded to the point of practically no return on the film, so a new scan would not be possible cheaply. And in addition, since The Alamo was shot in 70mm, there was far more detail recoded than could be salvaged at 1080i. A 4k scan is the minimum that would be required, and better still 6k or 8k if a theatrical presentation is planned. However, it is rather moot, if the original film elements are bad.

[sethb]

Practically ALL Eastman (Metrocolor) color elements for all films done in that decade are seriously faded unless there were separation negatives that color prints could be reconstructed from--or digital restoration to bring the color back in a digital master.

My understanding is that unlike Technicolor, the Kodak Eastmancolor process does not use three separate black-and-white elements to produce color prints. There is (was) just one negative, in which all of the colors slowly (or not so slowly) faded to a pinkish tint. The only way to repair such damage is through expensive digital restoration, as I believe was done on Fox's "The Sound of Music."

I also believe that the main reason the studios went with EastmanColor instead of Technicolor was not because the Kodak process was better, but simply because it was cheaper --- there was only one negative to deal with instead of three, thereby cutting the film cost by two-thirds. But as Mom always said, "You get what you pay for!" SETH

[martinola]

My understanding is that unlike Technicolor, the Kodak Eastmancolor process does not use three separate black-and-white elements to produce color prints. There is (was) just one negative, in which all of the colors slowly (or not so slowly) faded to a pinkish tint.

Hi Seth.

True, Eastmancolor was a single strip negative, but separations were not infrequently made from the original negatives for either I.B. Tech printing or for preservation. More often this would be on bigger budget or very popular films. With 65mm production, one had no other option than to shoot on a single negative.

Regards,
Martin

[Harlett O'Dowd]

What exactly are the differences between the LaserDisc and the DVD versions? I seem to recall the same thing with "1776". The LaserDisc has scenes in it that were not included in the DVD release for some reason.

yes, the 1776 laserdisc, at about 180 minutes, contains a well worn, almost sepia toned work print pimped out with the best surviving color footage available. It contains almost every word of dialogue from the stage play plus the full version of "Piddle, Twiddle and Resolve" and the reprise of "The Lees of Old Virginia."

The so-called "director's cut" which is the current DVD release and what TCM airs, is essentially all the color/undamaged footage utilized in the laser disc, but with all the sepia/damaged footage removed. It runs about 165 minutes or so. It includes almost all of Scene 5, including "Cool, Cool, Considerate Men," the number Nixon allegedly convinced Jack Warner to remove from the film. I *think* it also includes the introductory verse from "He Plays the Violin" but is missing the two musical cuts listed above ("Twiddle" is a big loss.)

The release print, BTW, came in at about 145.

1776 is the reason I still own a laserdisc player. They will pry that disc out of my cold, dead hands.

[s.w.a.c.]

Another article about The Alamo's lack of restoration, by K.A. Westphal, whom I met at Cinefest this year.

[Silencebound]

I has had a Special-Edition LaserDisc of USA-imported NTSC format that I bought it as a second-handed item, but sold it some years ago. The full vivid colour was there with stunning 70mm-sized letterboxed version in 4:3 std video aspect that only recorded in Analogue 480i video format. Something tragical that it was storaged away very carelessly after successfully transfer to LD - And then again bring out the same 70mm print and shown exactly like that one - see above. Excessively fade-out with only reddish colour left remaining to make it virtually impossible to have it restored back to original vivid colour presentation but the original 2:20:1 ratio aspect and sharp-focused picture images for 1080p transfer is only the thing that still remaining . . .