Does male actors wearing red lipstick during silent era ?

[Silencebound]

While upon on restoring my 35mm fragments aiming for this site, as I have noticed closer at several frames of the male actors that wore red lipstick during filming their vehicles during on the silent days ? I felt that probably was due to filming it aimed for B/W type only to upper-crust their expression image, right ? Or it might must be European-only films, like this :-


From the uploaded # 4 fragment of PARIS EN CINQ JOURS ( France - 1925 )


From the uploaded # 5 fragment of an unknown European film

Although somewhat most similar to American films but nowhere to be found in my 35mm fragments. Got any idea to shed this light ?

[Donald Binks]

I may be wrong but I remember seeing a documentary where they were recreating the making of old pictures and the make up they were using was blue for the lips and cheeks. Apparently this showed up better on the black and white film.

There was another wonderful film "The Fools on the Hill" that dramatised the start of BBC TV in 1936. For the Baird system they had to wear an awful yellow make-up with black lips.

[boblipton]

Not so much all B&W film, but the Orthochromatic film that was used in the industry. Panchromatic film, which came into use in the 1920s, had no such problems.

Bob

[Donald Binks]

Not so much all B&W film, but the Orthochromatic film that was used int he industry. Panchromatic film, which came into use in the 920s, had no such problems.

Bob

Thanks Bob. I was going to say Orthowatzisname but didn't know how to spell it.

[momsne]

Maybe some of the guys just liked wearing lipstick.

[Jack Theakston]

Sort of the reverse of this, the early Farnsworth TV cameras were red sensitive (versus blue sensitive ortho stock), and some wild makeup had to be applied, as seen in this Popular Science issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlcCxKN3cWk" target="_blank

[entredeuxguerres]

Maybe some of the guys just liked wearing lipstick.

And eye-shadow, as in the case of Frank Fay & some others I don't remember.

[Donald Binks]

Sort of the reverse of this, the early Farnsworth TV cameras were red sensitive (versus blue sensitive ortho stock), and some wild makeup had to be applied, as seen in this Popular Science issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlcCxKN3cWk" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

I think Farnsworth was working on the same type of electronic system in the U.S. as Marconi/EMI in the U.K. However when the BBC commenced TV transmissions they used both the Marconi electronic system and the Baird mechanical system broadcasting on alternate days. Baird had tested his mechanical system over the air since 1929 but the BBC wished him to broadcast in 405 lines - "high definition" in 1936. Here is a short extract from "The Fools of the Hill" showing a poor girl undergoing the "Baird treatment" - (go to 12.00 - it's all frightfully amusing.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SREEaOrtaJE" target="_blank" target="_blank

[Changsham]

I remember watching a news promotion for a prestigious exhibition of theatre costumes at the Melbourne Art Gallery. Highlighted was a costume worn by famous Russian ballet dancer Nijinski. A museum expert was interviewed. The interviewer asked the expert why there were blue stains around the neck and collar region of the costume. The expert said it was fashionable at the time to wear blue make up. More likely Nijinski was filmed or photographed in this costume and had to wear blue makeup for Orthochromatic film.

[boblipton]

Not so much all B&W film, but the Orthochromatic film that was used int he industry. Panchromatic film, which came into use in the 920s, had no such problems.

Bob

Thanks Bob. I was going to say Orthowatzisname but didn't know how to spell it.

I believe it's spelled Orthowhatzisname.

Bob

[Brooksie]

I remember watching a news promotion for a prestigious exhibition of theatre costumes at the Melbourne Art Gallery. Highlighted was a costume worn by famous Russian ballet dancer Nijinski. A museum expert was interviewed. The interviewer asked the expert why there were blue stains around the neck and collar region of the costume. The expert said it was fashionable at the time to wear blue make up. More likely Nijinski was filmed or photographed in this costume and had to wear blue makeup for Orthochromatic film.

The expert wasn't quite correct. I know the outfit you're referring to, which is now in the National Gallery in Canberra. It was for Nijinsky's role in Le Dieu Bleu (The Blue God). Nijinsky certainly used blue body paint, but it was for this specific role only. There's a picture in this article which shows roughly how he would have looked in costume: http://michellepotter.org/articles/vasl ... e-comments.

I understand early Technicolor also required some real-life adjustments - in particular, I've heard it said that the white in Judy Garland's blouse and pinafore for The Wizard of Oz was actually a very pale pink. Anyone know of any examples? It's quite fascinating.

[Donald Binks]

I understand early Technicolor also required some real-life adjustments - in particular, I've heard it said that the white in Judy Garland's blouse and pinafore for The Wizard of Oz was actually a very pale pink. Anyone know of any examples? It's quite fascinating

White was apparently difficult to photograph in monochrome as well. I have read that men's collars and shirts for example were actually light blue.

[Donald Binks]

Thanks Bob. I was going to say Orthowatzisname but didn't know how to spell it.

I believe it's spelled Orthowhatzisname.

This typewriter doesn't print up anything I say correctly!

[Changsham]

The expert wasn't quite correct. I know the outfit you're referring to, which is now in the National Gallery in Canberra. It was for Nijinsky's role in Le Dieu Bleu (The Blue God). Nijinsky certainly used blue body paint, but it was for this specific role only. There's a picture in this article which shows roughly how he would have looked in costume: http://michellepotter.org/articles/vasl ... e-comments.

I understand early Technicolor also required some real-life adjustments - in particular, I've heard it said that the white in Judy Garland's blouse and pinafore for The Wizard of Oz was actually a very pale pink. Anyone know of any examples? It's quite fascinating.[/quote]
Thanks Brooksie, makes sense now.

[Richard P. May]

Changsham:
The need for some degree of color in the old Technicolor process is correct, due to the printing process.
The dye transfer (IB) printing transferred dye soaked up into the emulsion of the matrix to the final print. If there was no color (a pure, bright, white object) there would not be any emulsion to absorb the dye, thus leaving a "blank" spot in the print. This would not look right, surrounded by color images. The solution was to have everything contain some degree of color which would photograph to the 3-strip negative, and subsequently cause the full image in the print to have some amount of dye.
I hope this makes sense, answering your very logical question.

[Brooksie]

The question was mine, but I'll thank you on behalf of myself and Changsham . Thanks, that's something I'd wondered about for a long time.

[Silencebound]

Bit hard to say, but I've been happily appreciated at everyone here about the facial stuff yet to be discussed and revealed. Also many thanks to several members for supplying the YT video here about the blue lip grooming situation before the camera.

[Phototone]

Orthochromatic emulsions, such as used predominantly in the 1920's for films render reds very dark. Actors who didn't lighten their complexions with makeup would appear swarthy. Good for rugged men, not so much for anyone else. Lips being a reddish hue anyway would appear darker in relation to the lighter white makeup used on the face.

Notice in the #4 fragment you posted above. Look at the guys face, and his hands. His hands had essentially no make up on them, and they appear much darker than his face, which has full makeup.

[FrankFay]

Here is amusing footage of Arthur Askey in a very early television recreation- the yellow shirt photographed white- genuine white would photograph gray

[ChrisStockslager]

Maybe some of the guys just liked wearing lipstick.

Lol. After all, Norman Kerry and Valentino were rumored to have at least been fuck buddies...

... God, I hope it's true.

[sherry]

Maybe some of the guys just liked wearing lipstick.

Lol. After all, Norman Kerry and Valentino were rumored to have at least been fuck buddies...

... God, I hope it's true.

One of them had 2 wives, the other 3, so it appears that women did have a chance
Not that it matters now after so many decades ...