How to access and release an archive-held silent

[drednm]

Gloria Swanson's The Humming Bird (1924) is apparently complete and archived at LOC. I'd like to try a campaign for this film, but the film is not public domain and I'm not sure how much of a hassle dealing with Paramount would be. I chatted with Ben about non-PD films, and I don't thinks he's attempted the process either. Maybe it's not as bad as I think.

Actually I'm on my 3rd LOC project. For Getting Mary Married, I simply paid for the DVD transfer myself. Not all LOC "rescues" require crowd funding, just depends on the scope of the project.

The LOC staff tries to make the process as painless as possible. A jet-setter like Ben makes many trips to LOC to scout material, but it can be also done from the comfort of your home.

I encourage you (all) to give it a try.

[Harlett O'Dowd]

Gloria Swanson's The Humming Bird (1924) is apparently complete and archived at LOC. I'd like to try a campaign for this film, but the film is not public domain and I'm not sure how much of a hassle dealing with Paramount would be. I chatted with Ben about non-PD films, and I don't thinks he's attempted the process either. Maybe it's not as bad as I think.

LOC has a lot of non-PD Paramount films I'd like to get copies of (ZAZA and THE SONG AND DANCE MAN in particular.) I'm not sure I'm the one to be the first to negotiate with Paramount, but should you or someone else successfully manage it, it's something I would like to try myself.

[BenModel]

I haven't looked into doing anything with LoC that's still under copyright because of an anticipated clearance cost, plus there's still plenty of PD stuff in the collection. If anyone wants to reach out to Paramount to inquire, I can find out who to ask if you don't already have a contact.

Ben

PS -- I'd like to suggest that folks in these threads find another term for these projects instead of "rescue efforts". The films have already been "rescued" by the archive in their spending many thousands of dollars (your tax dollars, in the case of LoC) over decades to store the 35mm nitrate, make preservation negs as well as 35mm show/research prints. Curators at the various archives lurk here and if you're interested in having them be on your side on this going forward, making them out to be the enemy does not help you.

Both Ed and I have found a simple wormhole to get PD films in LoC's collection to fans who want to see them and who can't make the trip to the Motion Picture Reading Room in DC. Here's to more of the Nitrateville community taking up the cause and doing their own crowd-funded distribution projects. Happy to share the steps with anyone interested.

[Frederica]

I haven't looked into doing anything with LoC that's still under copyright because of an anticipated clearance cost, plus there's still plenty of PD stuff in the collection. If anyone wants to reach out to Paramount to inquire, I can find out who to ask if you don't already have a contact.

Ben

PS -- I'd like to suggest that folks in these threads find another term for these projects instead of "rescue efforts". The films have already been "rescued" by the archive in their spending many thousands of dollars (your tax dollars, in the case of LoC) over decades to store the 35mm nitrate, make preservation negs as well as 35mm show/research prints. Curators at the various archives lurk here and if you're interested in having them be on your side on this going forward, making them out to be the enemy does not help you.

Both Ed and I have found a simple wormhole to get PD films in LoC's collection to fans who want to see them and who can't make the trip to the Motion Picture Reading Room in DC. Here's to more of the Nitrateville community taking up the cause and doing their own crowd-funded distribution projects. Happy to share the steps with anyone interested.

Are those steps something you can share here on line, or would that be too lengthy? I'm not averse to trying such a project, but I have no idea how to even start. Angels fearing to tread, and all that.

I suspect that even if Paramount wanted to make their obscure back catalog available, the cost for legally clearing the properties might stop them in their tracks.

This subject is worthy of it's own thread, don't you think, mods?

[drednm]

I agree.... a separate thread would be great.....

[Mike Gebert]

Per request I have split the previous thread this discussion was part of, with what I think is an appropriate new title.

[drednm]

As for Zaza, I don't think there's a copy at LOC but I know Eastman House has a mint print along with another Swanson gem For Better, For Worse.

[BenModel]

Thanks, Michael. Great idea.

Ben

[Jim Roots]

Must be the first time Ben has ever found himself described as "a jetsetter". But appropriate!

Jim

[Frederica]

Must be the first time Ben has ever found himself described as "a jetsetter". But appropriate!

Jim

You should have seen his Cannes Red Carpet appearance. Woot.

[drednm]

Must be the first time Ben has ever found himself described as "a jetsetter". But appropriate!

Jim

Comparatively speaking..... LOL

[Harlett O'Dowd]

As for Zaza, I don't think there's a copy at LOC but I know Eastman House has a mint print along with another Swanson gem For Better, For Worse.

Yes, I've screened both ZAZA and SONG AND DANCE MAN at LOC

[kaleidoscopeworld]

I'm very interested in doing a project like this, it's something I've been thinking about a lot over the last couple of months. I've done a bit of research into the practicalities and got a couple of films in mind, will give it some more thought over the next while.

drednm, maybe I could email you to get info on a couple of specifics?

[Spiny Norman]

Well, I got Damon & Pythias from the LoC, but eventually only one person actually wanted a copy, so my plan to spread the costs a bit amounted to nothing.

[Jeff Rapsis]

I can confirm that the Library of Congress does indeed have a print of 'Zaza' as I accompanied a screening of it at the Packard Center last month.

[boblipton]

Indeed. They showed it a couple of years ago at MOMA during their Dwan festival. Some minor decomposition and there was a small amount of blurriness in some scenes, but a fine performance by Swanson.

Bob

[Gagman 66]

Ed,

Douglas Fairbanks praised THE HUMMING BIRD as Swanson's finest film. I would sure love to see it. Incidentally, Hugh Munro Neely told me that he believes that REVENGE (1928) is out of copyright. It would be great if we could get a fund raiser started for BROKEN CHAINS. Although as I understand it MoMA has this not the LOC.

Have you approached MoMA at all? I wonder what it would cost to have the title cards to HIS HOUR translated back to English? By the way, there is a campaign going on Facebook to get BEAU GESTE (1926) added to the National Film Registry this year. I also suggested THE JOHNSTOWN FLOOD (1926) for it's historical significance. Not even listed among the reminders of films yet to be added to the registry. Neither was CHILDREN OF DIVORCE (1927)surprisingly. Don't forget LILAC TIME (1928). We need to get that in! Another Paramount title, does anyone know if the LOC has Lubitsch FORBIDDEN PARADISE? or not?

[Ann Harding]

A Swedish film poster of The Humming Bird:

[David Pierce]

Ed,

Douglas Fairbanks praised THE HUMMING BIRD as Swanson's finest film. I would sure love to see it. Incidentally, Hugh Munro Neely told me that he believes that REVENGE (1928) is out of copyright. I

The copyright to REVENGE was renewed.

David Pierce

[Wm. Charles Morrow]

Another Paramount title, does anyone know if the LOC has Lubitsch FORBIDDEN PARADISE? or not?

According to the FIAF database, prints of Forbidden Paradise are held by the Cinémathèque Royale (Bruxelles) [BEB], George Eastman House (Rochester) [USR], the Museum of Modern Art (New York) [USM], Filmmuseum (Amsterdam) [NLA], and Archives du Film du CNC (Bois d'Arcy) [FRB].

I saw MoMA's print several years ago. It's incomplete, and the titles were in Czech. I was told at the time that Eastman House's print was complete.

[drednm]

So I assume Zaza (1923) is under copyright to Paramount.....

[Jim Roots]

A Swedish film poster of The Humming Bird:

Last night I started re-watching Beggars of Life, and I have to say Gloria in this poster looks a lot like Louise in that film. Right down to the hairstyle.

Jim

[Harlett O'Dowd]

So I assume Zaza (1923) is under copyright to Paramount.....

presumably.

Sadly, I suspect it's more complicated than most. Paramount remade it in 1938 with Colbert. And Universal now, presumably, owns the copyright to that remake. Question is, did Universal get the copyright to the silent in the transfer? Did Paramount keep the original in the transfer? Did Paramount allow the 1923 version to lapse *because* they had (or no longer had) the sound remake when the 1923 copyright came up for the last renewal?

[Jim Reid]

Did Paramount allow the 1923 version to lapse *because* they had (or no longer had) the sound remake when the 1923 copyright came up for the last renewal?

The sale of the Paramount library to Universal didn't take place until later in the 50s, so they still had the sound film when it was time to renew the silent.

[Harlett O'Dowd]

Did Paramount allow the 1923 version to lapse *because* they had (or no longer had) the sound remake when the 1923 copyright came up for the last renewal?

The sale of the Paramount library to Universal didn't take place until later in the 50s, so they still had the sound film when it was time to renew the silent.

Assuming the silent ZAZA went with the sound remake, which is probable. When would the silent ZAZA have come up for renewal?

[Jim Reid]

28 years. 1951. If I remember right, the Paramount library was sold to Universal in '56 or '57.

[Donald Binks]

I have been reading a lot of this with some avid interest. It has long been my desire to see silent films presented "properly" in a large cinema palace with a full orchestra and attendant show together with the Wurlitzer organ.

In Melbourne, Oz, we have just such an ideal venue and the adrenalin is pumping through my veins with an idea to try and organise a Silent Film Festival. Of course I am a complete unknowledgeable oaf when it comes to knowing exactly how to even start to put something like this into effect. Knowing that there are quite a few on this esteemed board who have far better knowledge than I as to how I may proceed, I should much value people who might have some spare time to PM me with a few tips on how to start to put such an idea into action. Your input would be much welcomed.

I know that trying something like this on would be a big job, but I am a retired old fart and it would be a labour of love.

[Gagman 66]

Ed,

Douglas Fairbanks praised THE HUMMING BIRD as Swanson's finest film. I would sure love to see it. Incidentally, Hugh Munro Neely told me that he believes that REVENGE (1928) is out of copyright. I

The copyright to REVENGE was renewed.

David Pierce

Renewed by who? It doesn't make much since that REVENGE is still copyrighted while RAMONA is not? In any case, Hugh doesn't think it matters much at this point. Ideally, RAMONA and REVENGE would both be released at the same time in the same set. Each of them Star Dolores Del Rio and were Directed by Edwin Carewe.

[silentfilm]

In Melbourne, Oz, we have just such an ideal venue and the adrenalin is pumping through my veins with an idea to try and organise a Silent Film Festival. Of course I am a complete unknowledgeable oaf when it comes to knowing exactly how to even start to put something like this into effect. Knowing that there are quite a few on this esteemed board who have far better knowledge than I as to how I may proceed, I should much value people who might have some spare time to PM me with a few tips on how to start to put such an idea into action. Your input would be much welcomed.

I know that trying something like this on would be a big job, but I am a retired old fart and it would be a labour of love.

Donald,
You could probably get some help from the people who put on the Australia Silent Film Festival in Sydney...
http://www.ozsilentfilmfestival.com.au/ ... ntCatId=14

Or you could just drive or fly to Sydney every year.

[Donald Binks]

Donald,
You could probably get some help from the people who put on the Australia Silent Film Festival in Sydney...
http://www.ozsilentfilmfestival.com.au/ ... ntCatId=14

Or you could just drive or fly to Sydney every year.

Thanks Bruce. It used to be known as the Sydney Silent Film Festival - I didn't know they had since claimed more territory.