The Keaton Project

[Rodney]

I would have if they were offering Blu-rays as an incentive. But 120 Euros for upgraded DVDs is just too much to ask these days.

Read Serge's post above. The BluRays are available if you want them. And, of course, you can also contribute at a much lower level if you want, whatever you're comfortable with, and then buy the BluRays when they came out. This is to raise money for completing the project, it's not meant to be a way to pre-purchase the videos in whatever format.

The Kickstarter page hasn't been amended to match what Serge is saying.

I suspect, based on my recent correspondence, Serge and his friends are working really long days. I would trust him, but it's up to you.

[dgunning]

The project has now exceeded the funding goal.

[jacksparrow900]

are their any reviews of this http://www.dvdfr.com/dvd/f74574-buster- ... -1923.html" target="_blank

[martin arias]

I already have a copy. The restorations are very good, but the set is not perfect. About the most problematic titles,

HARD LUCK is the best copy I've seen, although there is a bad edit in the scene on which he hangs from a tree which leads to a jump not present on previous versions.
OUT WEST puts together both existing prints for the first time and it's very nice to watch
THE ELECTRIC HOUSE, doesn't present much improvement with respect to previous versions. I think there's only one known source from that one.
BACK STAGE, is the less satisfying print, for it's highly incomplete compared with the one on the old KINO set. There is a whole section missing on the second reel which is present on Kino. Also the reel change and the the ending are more complete on Kino.
MOONSHINE: One of the highlights of the set, combining both existing prints to make the most watchable version I've seen.
CONVICT 13 also presents better image quality than previous versions, even if the change from one source to another is too noticeable in short segments.
THE BLACKSMITH is another highlight, for here we are offered both the well known usual version (which was Keaton's first trial with the film) and the newly discovered version with new footage in excellent image quality (this was the final version of the film as we know now).
CONEY ISLAND has (as a bonus and presented separately from the main film) the original ending, with a politcally incorrect gag which was edited out on most versions. I didn't know it. It's the usual gag of the comedian following a lady which turns up to be an Afro-American. I don't know why they decided to put it apart, anyway. Such a gag is present on so many comedies of the day that it's hardly a surprise. Not that I defend racism, but historically speaking, I can't see the reason for severing it from the film in 2016. You get similar gags on Larry Semon films, on Keaton's "Seven Chances", on Billy Bevan titles. I even remember a similar gag being edited out from the Harry Langdon set.
OUR RELATIONS includes a new section at the very end. The producers of the set claim this is an alternate ending. I'm not so sure. It looks to me like a section edited out on some prints. For that reason, I would have added the usual ending with Keaton at the train to the new segment. I find no contradiction in seeing both one after the other. But that's just an opinion.

While image quality is highly improved in many films, there's a little objection when they found better looking but highly incomplete nitrate prints, as in NEIGHBORS. While the sections taken from the mint nitrate look outstanding, that print has plenty of small and not so small fragments missing here and there which have been replaced on the restorations with segments from lesser quality copies. When you get in one single scene fragments from each print alternating for one minute every two seconds, you cannot concentrate on the film. If a gag is to be followed into four or six of these changes, it's hard to laugh at it. So, if I want to show the short to someone who doesn't know Keaton, I wouldn't use this highly distracting version, preferring instead previous issues with, perhaps, less brilliant image, but more even all throughout.
Of course, for a Keaton fan, to watch some fragments in mint form is wonderful. But as a whole, and existing other prints not so bad and complete, it's a thing to consider. These proceedings can be seen on various shorts from this set. I mean, when complete prints exist. I'm not speaking, for instance, of the Keystone Chaplin shorts when sometimes you have to navigate into 4 sources to watch a more or less complete film.

m.

[jacksparrow900]

How is Daydreams

[martin arias]

DAYDREAMS looks ok, but I didn't notice additional footage. The stills from missing scenes that Kino put in their version were not used here. The newly discovered scene with Keaton honored by the police (which had been presented by Kino) is here but in a different place (before the scene in which Buster is followed by thousand cops, not before the scene where he's cleaning the streets (which was the first choice on other restorations). I can't say which one is wrong, but the shot with the girl dreaming has a jump in that place, so I don't know if that sequence is now in the right place. There's just a tiny bit more at the ending, but nothing crucial.

[Richard Warner]

I also have this set and agree with Martin's comments. On the whole, I'm VERY pleased with the set and the music is first-rate throughout. If I were screening Keaton's shorts on DVD to an audience, I would use this set for 27 out of 32 films. For the remaining five films, I would use Kino's versions for the following reasons:
BACKSTAGE - the old Kino version with the Alloy Orchestra score is more complete and in better condition, as noted by Martin.
THE BOAT - the Kino "ultimate enhanced" version with Ben Model's score is cleaner. This new version has a dark stripe down the left-hand side in some scenes which distracted me.
DAY DREAMS - the title card just before the Police Chief sequence has obviously been translated from a foreign print which didn't have that sequence and it reads something like "making a clean getaway" (just like the old Rohauer prints). Unfortunately this makes the Police Chief shots which follow incomprehensible - I did try this out on an audience and they became baffled at this point! I will use Kino's "ultimate" version in future.
THE ELECTRIC HOUSE - the close up of the Electrician's manual given to Keaton near the start is illegible. Again, I prefer Kino's "ultimate" print.
THE LOVE NEST - As with the old Arte / Masters of Cinema sets, the Bottle of Port gag has lost all meaning due to the literal re-translation of a foreign title card back into English. For this reason I would again use Kino's "ultimate" version. Hopefully, the title-card / close-up glitches will be fixed on this, Day Dreams and The Electric House for the USA release.

I'm being super-critical. Most of the restorations are rock-steady, very detailed and a joy to watch. Even parts of Day Dreams look pristine!

Richard Warner

[jacksparrow900]

Lobster films left this comment on Kickstarter about the project 6 days ago

Dear contributors,
It’s been a while since we have posted any updates, we are sincerely sorry !
Do not worry about the rewards, a number of you have already gotten them and the rest are being delivered promptly.
As for the online viewing links, we have found new and better elements to be restored, and we would like to share them with you exclusively. Which is why we have delayed the online uploads of the videos. Do not worry ! Your movie-choices have been registered ! You will receive an e-mail with a personal password as soon as they have been uploaded. For those of you who haven’t yet made their choices, do not hesitate to send us a message at the following address : [email protected]" target="_blank in order for you to send us your choices.
As for the Blu-Ray edition, the pack that will be edited at Kino International has not been released yet ! As indicated, it will be done by mid-2016 and a package containing the new edition will be sent to you from our partners. As for the rest of your rewards, you should receive them by next week.
For those who have not received any part of their reward, do not forget to fill in the online questionnaire available on your personal account. An e-mail was sent to you for this purpose, these information are crucial for us to send you your gifts !
A huge thank you,

The Lobster Team

[martin arias]

Yes, I also noticed those two badly translated cards that make the jokes impossible to understand.

The soundtrack to CONEY ISLAND, by the way, with plenty of period songs about the park, is at the same time wonderful to hear, and highly distracting when you try to focuse on the short. Especially on this one, there should have been an alternative track.

m.

[jacksparrow900]

Since Kino will be releasing the blu ray later this year. We might get additional options for scores

[jjbluecaps]

What about HARD LUCK?
It has the beginning and the final scene?

[martin arias]

Yes, HARD LUCK is complete and better looking than before, with the sole exception of the sequence of Buster hanging from a tree, which, as I already said, has a strange jump (not that there's footage missing, but it was edited in a different odd way).

m.

[jjbluecaps]

Wow, that's great!
Thanks for the information.

Speaking of gaps, I will never understand that giant gap in the new restored version of THE ADVENTURER...

[Mike Gebert]

martin arias said:
While image quality is highly improved in many films, there's a little objection when they found better looking but highly incomplete nitrate prints, as in NEIGHBORS. While the sections taken from the mint nitrate look outstanding, that print has plenty of small and not so small fragments missing here and there which have been replaced on the restorations with segments from lesser quality copies. When you get in one single scene fragments from each print alternating for one minute every two seconds, you cannot concentrate on the film. If a gag is to be followed into four or six of these changes, it's hard to laugh at it. So, if I want to show the short to someone who doesn't know Keaton, I wouldn't use this highly distracting version, preferring instead previous issues with, perhaps, less brilliant image, but more even all throughout.

So let me get this straight— you're for INCOMPLETE versions based on print quality over a version containing every last available bit of film?

[Richard Warner]

Mike, I'm sure that Martin will respond himself, but having seen Neighbors, perhaps I can chime in. It's a choice between watching a COMPLETE film in lesser quality (older restorations) or the same COMPLETE film which uses much better material for the most part, but with jump cuts in the new material filled out with the older, lesser quality prints (new Lobster restoration). The switching between a very sharp image and a less-sharp image a few seconds at a time can be distracting, despite Lobster doing their very best to minimise this effect. A Keaton fan would probably prefer the new version. A casual viewer might wonder why the film goes "out of focus" for a few seconds here and there!
Richard

[martin arias]

Thanks Richard, that's exactly what I meant. Of course I love to watch the mint bits, but as there ARE complete prints, and I mean GOOD or VERY GOOD complete prints, if I have to show any of those shorts to my wife, for instance, I wouldn't choose the new restorations, due to those continuous changes in quality that distract you so much. It's not, as on the so-much-debated question about THE IMMIGRANT, or about some of Chaplin's Keystone shorts, a choice between watching the complete short with some scenes (which do not exist in any other form) in low quality. Of course I prefer to watch the new METROPOLIS restoration over the old shortened one. The case here, is that maybe you get 4 seconds of high quality, then 1 second of medium quality, then 5 seconds of high, then 4 seconds of low and so on, on shorts which you're used to watch with no such an inconvenience at all. And some of these changes "interrupt" or distract you from the gags going on. But again, as I know these shorts by heart and I love them so much, I love to be able to watch some sequences as they were premiered. But if I have to show the films to someone not so acquainted with them, I would probably choose the NEARLY MINT but more consistent prints from previous restorations. I hope I made my point now! Cheers!

[Mike Gebert]

Oh, I agree completely... {whistles]

[jacksparrow900]

I wonder if the US blu ray will have further restoration done to the titles that need it.

[Richard Warner]

Oh dear........
I just showed Neighbors and Convict 13 to my wife. She thought that the restorations were superb, the best she's ever seen them (especially Convict 13) and the chopping and changing between prints didn't bother her at all. She reckons that Lobster Films have done a magnificent job and says I'm a a sad nit-picker.
Time to get a life, I think........
Richard

[martin arias]

I just "described" the restorations. I never said they were bad. In any case, it's a matter of taste.

cheers

m.

[Mark Zimmer]

Yeah, I didn't take your description as critical, but information a prospective buyer would probably want to know.

[Richard Warner]

Martin - I didn't take your descriptions as critical either - my earlier comment about "getting a life" was directed at myself because I thought that (unlike you) I was being a bit too negative! Lobster have done some excellent work on this set and most of the shorts have never looked better.
Richard

[jacksparrow900]

the work done on the Blu-ray edition will indeed be more thorough than the one done on the DVDs, seeing that we found some new elements on a couple of films after the dvd release.
Lobster Team.

[martin arias]

this is maddening!

So how many versions a year should we get?

I contributed to the set, but when we were told to choose between the DVD and Blu-Ray sets it was apparent that the differences between both would be just the format.

I really don't understand how you people work...

m.

[jacksparrow900]

I just noticed this watching the blu ray version of COPS. There is a shot that's out of place. Before he passes by the Blacksmith the shot before has the telephone down on the cart and already hooked up to the horse. He doesn't take it down until the horse stops at the Blacksmith. Has this shot been fixed and placed after the blacksmith?

[Roscoe]

Has anyone seen this? I gather this will be the new Lobster restorations...

http://classicflix.com/buster-keaton-sh ... 16263.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

There's also this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CJC ... ge_o00_s00" target="_blank

[WaverBoy]

Wow, that's great!
Thanks for the information.

Speaking of gaps, I will never understand that giant gap in the new restored version of THE ADVENTURER...

What's now missing from THE ADVENTURER? Is it really impossible to get the Mutuals at least as complete as earlier releases? Sigh...

And, for the Keaton Blu-ray set, I hope they've restored the missing footage to BACK STAGE, used the proper intertitles for those particular badly translated ones in DAYDREAMS and THE LOVE NEST, used a legible closeup of the electrician's manual in THE ELECTRIC HOUSE, and fixed the position of the COPS shot that was out of place in the old Blu-ray set.

[martin arias]

THE ADVENTURER is missing a short sequence at the change of reel, which was included on all previously known versions.

None of the things you mention was corrected in the Keaton set as far as I know. The print of "Backstage" is less complete than the one on Kino. And the "Port" gag in "The Love Nest" is badly translated. The caption of the book on "The Electric House" is not the original one.

m.

[Scoundrel]

" THE ADVENTURER is missing a short sequence at the change of reel, which was included on all previously known versions. "

Is this the case with the BFI Blu ray as well ...?

[martin arias]

no idea