NAPOLEON DVD?

[R. Cat]

On top, there will be some organ or brass bands to join the gaps. (terrifying!)

There was an organist to give the orchestra a break during the early 80s tour.

Absolutely. But, when the Carl Davis score is played, there are three intervals like for a long Wagner opera. No need to break the orchestral score with organ or brass band. Actually, you can already have a look at the Philharmonia Orchestra website with Napoléon scheduled on Nov. 6, 2016.

Exactly. A hodgepodge of mismatched music could very well undercut the improved visuals. I never saw the 80's tour version featuring Carmine's score, so I don't want to pre-judge the final result, but I do get the impression that Francis Ford Coppola sees this film more as a vehicle for showcasing his father's music than an actual tribute to the achievements of Able Gance. The music should pay homage to the film, not vice versa.

I posted my extended thoughts on this over on the Steve Hoffman Forum last night in response to a query about the possible inclusion of both scores on the restored Apollo version:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/a ... 884/page-2

"It would be nice, but there's a snowball's chance in Death Valley of that happening. Francis Ford Coppola wants Abel Gance's Napoleon to be a tribute to his father's composition, which on one level is quite laudable. I'm pretty sure that he'd have been content releasing the shorter 80's version (under 4 hours) his dad originally scored, but Kevin Brownlow's epic restoration met with Gance's approval and got in the way. On top of that, Carl Davis's triumphant scoring of Brownlow's longer restoration was popular, which only served to fuel tensions between the two camps. It set in motion a quiet feud over rights to Gance's masterpiece that persisted for over 30 years, only subsiding briefly when both gentlemen were awarded Oscars for their efforts in film conservation. The publicity surrounding this event provided a brief opportunity for Brownlow's restoration to be screened in the U.S. once again with Carl Davis conducting his magnificent score.

Fast forward several years. Now with two versions of Abel Gance's Napoleon in line for home video release, unless the Coppola/Cinematheque Francaise restoration is fast-tracked, BFI will be first out of the gate with Brownlow's restoration. Zoetrope still has a stranglehold on world rights outside of the UK and (ironically) France, which will undoubtably prevent an official U.S. release of any Brownlow restoration with a Carl Davis' score. But technology has a way of making slap-fights over regional ownership of viewers a moot point. With the availability of inexpensive multi-region/zone players anyone who wants to view Kevin Brownlow's reconstruction of Abel Gance's classic on DVD or BD will be able to legally purchase a copy from a UK vendor later this year.

I suspect the Zoetrope/Cinematheque Francaise reconstruction will be longer and benefit from a full 4K digital restoration, but a cleaned up and properly tinted BFI release should be equally impressive, similar to the 5 1/2 hour reconstruction screened at the Oakland Paramount several years ago. But there are several nagging questions: Will the Apollo version that Cinematheque Francaise is reconstructing contain the trippy tricolor triptych sequence (the longer Apollo version did not according to Wiki-link)? Will the Carmine Coppola score, composed for a shorter film (under 4 hours; 24 fps) be adaptable to a much longer reconstruction shown at 20 fps? And finally, how did lost elements amounting to over an hour of recovered footage somehow get overlooked during Kevin Brownlow's quest? That's the most perplexing question of all given that restoring Gance's Napoleon has been the preservationist's life-long passion. For decades he searched through private collections, film vaults and national archives hunting down all known existing footage in an attempt to properly reconstruct this cinematic masterpiece. Robert A. Harris's comments seemed rather dismissive of Brownlow's accomplishments (at least that was my take on his comments), which is odd given that Kevin Brownlow is a genuine gentleman, but that may just be because Mr. Harris is mildly irked at the prospect of Zoetrope/Film Preserve coming in second in a two horse race."

[bigshot]

If they add footage, won't that throw a monkey wrench into Carmine Coppola's score? He is dead, so he can't be called upon to revise his score.

[oldposterho]

I hear Georgio Moroder might be available...

[Mike Gebert]

I am sorry, but i am somewhat confused. There are multiple versions? and Francis Ford Coppola (of Apocalypse Now fame?) is somehow involved? I am sorry, but it would appear that there is some background info I am missing. Which version is better, and how are the rights tangled? I had always been aware of this movie, and had always been interested in seeing it, but i had never encountered any of this... Does anyone care to explain whats going on Thank you in advance.

PS: I am sorry, and i know questions can be annoying, but i am relatively new to all of this.

There's a longer thread here, and this post kind of sums up the film's legal situation and why Coppola is interested in marrying his father's score to a new restoration from the Cinematheque Francaise. Personally, I think Coppola pere already wrote a hell of a lot of music for the film, so stretching it out over new material shouldn't be hard to do skillfully.

[R. Cat]

I am sorry, but i am somewhat confused. There are multiple versions? and Francis Ford Coppola (of Apocalypse Now fame?) is somehow involved? I am sorry, but it would appear that there is some background info I am missing. Which version is better, and how are the rights tangled? I had always been aware of this movie, and had always been interested in seeing it, but i had never encountered any of this... Does anyone care to explain whats going on Thank you in advance.

PS: I am sorry, and i know questions can be annoying, but i am relatively new to all of this.

There's a longer thread here, and this post kind of sums up the film's legal situation and why Coppola is interested in marrying his father's score to a new restoration from the Cinematheque Francaise. Personally, I think Coppola pere already wrote a hell of a lot of music for the film, so stretching it out over new material shouldn't be hard to do skillfully.

True enough, and most of us will probably buy both just to see for ourselves how each interpretation of Gance's benchmark work is handled. Still, at this point I'm getting more Godfather vibes in this Cinematheque Francaise reconstruction than either France or Ganse.

I'm trying to maintain a neutral perspective on these upcoming releases even with lingering suspicions about Francis Ford Coppola's agenda to control all aspects of the music used with the new reconstruction. Even though I'm not enamored of introducing both organs and brass bands into a complex symphonic mix I'll withhold judgment until I actually see the results or read some trustworthy reviews.

I'd really like to know Rodney Sauer's take on the adaptation of Carmine Coppola's existing score to expanded footage and slower playing speed (20 fps as opposed to 24 fps). He has a better understanding of what's involved in silent film scoring than those of us who are less musically trained.

If anyone here hasn't seen Abel Gance's masterpiece I can whole-heartedly recommend Kevin Brownlow's restoration and Carl Davis' conducted score based on first hand experience. Of course there's always room for other interpretations. The reviewers and buying public will cast their votes soon enough.

[FrankFay]

I am sorry, but i am somewhat confused. There are multiple versions? and Francis Ford Coppola (of Apocalypse Now fame?) is somehow involved? I am sorry, but it would appear that there is some background info I am missing. Which version is better, and how are the rights tangled? I had always been aware of this movie, and had always been interested in seeing it, but i had never encountered any of this... Does anyone care to explain whats going on Thank you in advance.

PS: I am sorry, and i know questions can be annoying, but i am relatively new to all of this.

I'm sure that others will give more information, but- Francis Ford Coppola's "American Zoetrope" company released the restoration in the 1980's. The film was cut by about 50 minutes and Coppola's father Carmine composed the score (it is a mediocre score but does have a traditional period feel to it). Coppola's company has since controlled the rights to any version of this film shown in the USA.

[Big Silent Fan]

The film was cut by about 50 minutes and Coppola's father Carmine composed the score (it is a mediocre score but does have a traditional period feel to it). Coppola's company has since controlled the rights to any version of this film shown in the USA.

To clarify, only Kenneth Brownlow did any cutting of the film.
To be shown at Radio City Music Hall in 1980, the allowed running time was restricted by management to no longer than four hours (it was an overtime issue). According to Brownlow's book "Napoleon," small cuts were made by him to the film; but it was the projection at 24 fps (instead of 20 fps) that changed the running time to four hours. Carmine had to compose a score that would keep up with the film that ran too fast.

I bought my VHS copy early in 1990 and soon afterwards, I was able to dub it to DVD. Today, my Magnavox DVD players allow for running recorded DVDs at .8 speed which returned the film to 4:50 because of the slower speed. Watched that way, nothing seems slow. Fortunately, the music handles the slower speed quite well since it needed to be slowed to match the slower image.
It's a big favorite of mine, chiefly because of the dedicated acting by everyone, be them a major character of simply a face in the crowd. I also have heard Carmine's score many times (at full speed and .8 speed) and have never tired of it. Without a doubt, I've viewed this more than 50 times over the years. Yes I know that sounds like a lot but I've already watched it twice just this year.

Reading comments about the use of theatre organ just last week in this thread was all it took for me to have another look to see exactly when and where the organ was used. Organ music was used just three times, and quite appropriately. That's not much considering the orchestra was playing for nearly four hours. I noted where it was done.

1. 33 minutes into the film and just as the rousing French National Anthem had been sung for the last time, the organ gave the orchestra a break for almost seven minutes while we see Napoleon in his room with the rioting mob outside.

2. 1:28 into the first part of the film, the organ begins when we see the title, "The Siege At Toulon." It plays for less than six minutes and the orchestra takes over when Napoleon is put in Charge of the attack.

3. 1:18 into the second half of the film, the organ plays (again just under six minutes) when Napoleon enters the empty Convention hall to receive his command from the now dead founders of the revolution.

Watched at .8 speed, the film's intensity seems greater than when seen at a too fast speed.

[seaquest]

OH GOD BE PRAISED!!! This is just more than I could have ever asked for.... I'd die to get my hands on any blu ray version of the film, but now we get to have the legendary Carl Davis score along with the extra footage of the french restoration. Time to get a region free player and quit my job so I'll have time to watch both of them! It'll take about half a year... But oh what sweet six months they will be...

[R. Cat]

The film was cut by about 50 minutes and Coppola's father Carmine composed the score (it is a mediocre score but does have a traditional period feel to it). Coppola's company has since controlled the rights to any version of this film shown in the USA.

To clarify, only Kenneth Brownlow did any cutting of the film.
To be shown at Radio City Music Hall in 1980, the allowed running time was restricted by management to no longer than four hours (it was an overtime issue). According to Brownlow's book "Napoleon," small cuts were made by him to the film; but it was the projection at 24 fps (instead of 20 fps) that changed the running time to four hours. Carmine had to compose a score that would keep up with the film that ran too fast.

I bought my VHS copy early in 1990 and soon afterwards, I was able to dub it to DVD. Today, my Magnavox DVD players allow for running recorded DVDs at .8 speed which returned the film to 4:50 because of the slower speed. Watched that way, nothing seems slow. Fortunately, the music handles the slower speed quite well since it needed to be slowed to match the slower image.
It's a big favorite of mine, chiefly because of the dedicated acting by everyone, be them a major character of simply a face in the crowd. I also have heard Carmine's score many times (at full speed and .8 speed) and have never tired of it. Without a doubt, I've viewed this more than 50 times over the years. Yes I know that sounds like a lot but I've already watched it twice just this year.

Reading comments about the use of theatre organ just last week in this thread was all it took for me to have another look to see exactly when and where the organ was used. Organ music was used just three times, and quite appropriately. That's not much considering the orchestra was playing for nearly four hours. I noted where it was done.

1. 33 minutes into the film and just as the rousing French National Anthem had been sung for the last time, the organ gave the orchestra a break for almost seven minutes while we see Napoleon in his room with the rioting mob outside.

2. 1:28 into the first part of the film, the organ begins when we see the title, "The Siege At Toulon." It plays for less than six minutes and the orchestra takes over when Napoleon is put in Charge of the attack.

3. 1:18 into the second half of the film, the organ plays (again just under six minutes) when Napoleon enters the empty Convention hall to receive his command from the now dead founders of the revolution.

Watched at .8 speed, the film's intensity seems greater than when seen at a too fast speed.

Thanks for clarifying the Radio City Music Hall information.

Alas, I've read Kevin Brownlow's book on Napoleon, but it's been awhile. Details about cutting the film to meet overtime restrictions weren't included in the Wikipedia entry, although there was mention that the choice of running the film at 24 fps was suggested by Robert A. Harris.

I recall renting the faster version from a video store (remember those?) back in the late 80's. Carmine's score seemed to work OK, but retaining the faster speed for home video was an unfortunate choice. The Brownlow restoration would've presented much better at 20 fps even if it meant reworking Carmine's score, adding other incidental music and releasing VHS tapes at LP speed as opposed to SP. There might've been some minor loss in tape quality, but the pacing of Gance's film would've looked more natural. -- Was there ever a laser disc release?

Fast forward to 2016: two competing reconstructions on BD/DVD should be nothing short of spectacular (both presumably will be displayable at 20 fps)!

[Big Silent Fan]

Thanks for clarifying the Radio City Music Hall information.
Alas, I've read Kevin Brownlow's book on Napoleon, but it's been awhile. Details about cutting the film to meet overtime restrictions weren't included in the Wikipedia entry, although there was mention that the choice of running the film at 24 fps was suggested by Robert A. Harris.

I've reread the page about reducing playing time and see I must clarify. It would seem from this passage below, that in the end, they did not have Brownlow reduce the film drastically to 3 1/2 hours at 20fps (a huge reduction), but simply ran it faster. However, it would seem from the words in the sentences following this, some cuts were also made by Brownlow.

From Page 236.
"Bob Harris telephoned, asking me to suggest cuts for the American version. 'We are going to have to cut it down to 3 1/2 hours.' he said, 'or the theatres won't accept it.' It was particularly important to shorten it for Radio City,' he said, otherwise they would run past midnight, and they would have to pay Golden Time to all the stagehands and musicians - a mere $15,000.00.
Realizing that the full version would still be available, I agreed to produce a version that more of less matched that shown at the premiere at the Opera. David Francis was shocked that having put the picture together, I was now being asked to dismantle it again, but when he spoke to Bob Harris he, too realized it would have to be done. In the end, Harris balked at so fierce a reduction , and settled for a version of four hours. He said he would run it at 24fps and thus save a great deal of time."
[That explains the film speed. Below is about cutting the film.]

The page continues: "The Violine sequences were the first to go - Gance professed to dislike those scenes anyway - together with eight minutes from Toulon. (This had the odd effect of making a long sequence seem longer.) Brief moments like Napoleon brooding in the grotto at Casone, and mingling with his family at Ajaccio were dropped. It was a pity, but rather a shorter and swifter "Napoleon" shown to the public than risk the full version sitting on the shelf in London."

Based on this page from his book, it would seem minor cuts were made by Kenneth Brownlow in addition to running the film at 24 fps.

[Mr.Mycroft]

The Brownlow restoration would've presented much better at 20 fps even if it meant reworking Carmine's score, adding other incidental music and releasing VHS tapes at LP speed as opposed to SP. There might've been some minor loss in tape quality, but the pacing of Gance's film would've looked more natural. -- Was there ever a laser disc release?

Fast forward to 2016: two competing reconstructions on BD/DVD should be nothing short of spectacular (both presumably will be displayable at 20 fps)!

There was a Laserdisc release of the Coppola version, which I still have. The same version was also released on dvd in Japan, Australia and in Germany but in all cases were just a port of the same transfer.

[didi-5]

I don't know who Kenneth Brownlow is, but ...

I have seen both the 5 hr + version by Kevin Brownlow with the Davis score, and the approx. 4 hr version with the Coppola score. They are not the same film by any means, and I far prefer the Davis score to the Coppola one. It isn't simply a matter of Coppola speeding up the cut which was put together by Brownlow in 1980 for Photoplay. That version, which is well documented in Brownlow's book, is far superior to the rushed effort put together by Coppola.

I am delighted about the new release (at last) but not surprised to see it will be restricted to the UK only, as Coppola controls rights in the US and other territories. And then there is the French restoration which will go beyond the 6 hr mark, which means eventually there will be three different versions of the same film on the market.

That's a good thing, I suppose. I already have the Coppola DVD, I will buy the Brownlow/Davis DVD, and will probably buy the French version as well. However I have long been irritated at the situation which basically holds what many feel to be the best score hostage because of Coppola family vanity, and I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way.

[Brent]

Don't you know anything? Kenneth Brownlow is the less-favoured brother who actually does all the hard work, while that glory-seeker Kevin hogs the limelight and claims all the credit. One day the truth will out, you'll see...

As for "Coppola family vanity": that's certainly true but only describes a fraction of what's really going off here.

[mwalls]

Forgive the seemingly simple question, but since Coppola owns the United States rights, and the BFI rights only extend to the UK, would I be able to order the BFI version and have them ship it to me in the United States?

Matthew

[Great Hierophant]

I have been wondering how they will handle the Polyvision triptych reel? In a perfect world, they would release the main feature on a dual-layered Blu-ray disc containing the film and the middle portion of the triptych (and nothing else). There would be two additional, single-layered Blu-ray discs, each containing special features and the left and right wings of the triptych. This would require two additional TV sets and Blu-ray players, each requiring the viewer to manually synchronize the playback beforehand (pause at a certain screen) so all three screens' footage runs in sync.

Of course that is rather ridiculous, isn't. But the alternative is fitting the three 4:3 screens into a single TV frame. If Blu-ray has a 1920x1080 resolution, each screen can take up 640 horizontal pixels and 480 vertical pixels. This would be the appropriate proportions :

triptych.png (10.44 KiB) Viewed 6475 times

Essentially this makes the final real shown in standard definition, and the quality is even further reduced for DVD (each screen 284x213).

Forgive the seemingly simple question, but since Coppola owns the United States rights, and the BFI rights only extend to the UK, would I be able to order the BFI version and have them ship it to me in the United States?

Matthew

I don't think Amazon.co.uk cares all that much. It will ship Region 2/B titles to the US, but if you complain that the disc won't play in your player, don't expect any support.

[R. Cat]

Forgive the seemingly simple question, but since Coppola owns the United States rights, and the BFI rights only extend to the UK, would I be able to order the BFI version and have them ship it to me in the United States?

Matthew

Of course! A good percentage of my silent film collection is made up of Master of Cinema releases (Zone B). Amazon.co.uk ships to the U.S. In fact, there's an added benefit in that British releases are usually cheaper because the British VAT (tax) is dropped, lowering the price for U.S. customers. What is necessary for zone-locked discs is a multi-region player (easy to obtain) and a little practice switching zones via remote.

[TheyHadFaces]

Delete.

I misread the post.

[TheyHadFaces]

BTW, did I miss it or was there not a release date given for the DVD/BR?

[Brent]

I don't think for a minute this will settle this aspect of the discussion but the bottom line line is that home video, even/especially on Blu-ray, cannot provide all the answers. Most of us have what are known as constant width, as opposed to constant height, displays. My own is a 1.78:1 projection screen; I don't have a TV but widescreen TVs have the same aspect ratio. Like it or not, constant width projection is fast becoming the norm in cinemas too.

That means the three main ARs (1.33ish:1 academy, 1.78ish:1 16:9 and 2.35ish:1 scope) all have to conform to a constant width screen, with scope(ish: Napoléon) films having the least height. It would be ridiculous to cede horizontal resolution of 5+ hours of Napoléon's running time to make it smaller so the last 20 minute or so's triptych effect works properly. Thus it's most likely on the DVD/Blu-ray that the triptych sequence will indeed become wider but shrink in height. And that's ok.

This is all just by way of saying that Napoléon, even more than most 'scope' films, deserves to be seen on a huge scope screen to be fully appreciated. That way it remains the same height throughout its running time. 1.78:1 screens are a (bloody good) compromise between all the different ARs and for most of what we watch, as well as for most of Napoléon itself, they serve us well. You can't have it all ways.

[Mitch Farish]

BTW, did I miss it or was there not a release date given for the DVD/BR?

The live premiere will be "in early November 2016 at the Royal Festival Hall ... Following the premiere of the digital restoration of Napoleon it will be released in cinemas UK-wide in its music-synched version. The simultaneous BFI Blu-ray/DVD release of the film is the first, of this full version, anywhere in the world and will include the recording of the score and a significant package of extras."

http://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/news ... ign=buffer

[Brianruns10]

I have been wondering how they will handle the Polyvision triptych reel? In a perfect world, they would release the main feature on a dual-layered Blu-ray disc containing the film and the middle portion of the triptych (and nothing else). There would be two additional, single-layered Blu-ray discs, each containing special features and the left and right wings of the triptych. This would require two additional TV sets and Blu-ray players, each requiring the viewer to manually synchronize the playback beforehand (pause at a certain screen) so all three screens' footage runs in sync.

Of course that is rather ridiculous, isn't. But the alternative is fitting the three 4:3 screens into a single TV frame. If Blu-ray has a 1920x1080 resolution, each screen can take up 640 horizontal pixels and 480 vertical pixels. This would be the appropriate proportions :

triptych.png

Essentially this makes the final real shown in standard definition, and the quality is even further reduced for DVD (each screen 284x213).

Forgive the seemingly simple question, but since Coppola owns the United States rights, and the BFI rights only extend to the UK, would I be able to order the BFI version and have them ship it to me in the United States?

Matthew

I don't think Amazon.co.uk cares all that much. It will ship Region 2/B titles to the US, but if you complain that the disc won't play in your player, don't expect any support.

I was pondering this, and I think the ideal solution is seamless branching. This would enable different versions of the film on the same disc without having redundancy. Offer the viewer the option of a "full screen" experience that omits the left and right panels to maximize PQ, and then offer a tryptych version which would seamlessly branch to the Polyvision scenes where applicable.

[R. Cat]

I have been wondering how they will handle the Polyvision triptych reel? In a perfect world, they would release the main feature on a dual-layered Blu-ray disc containing the film and the middle portion of the triptych (and nothing else). There would be two additional, single-layered Blu-ray discs, each containing special features and the left and right wings of the triptych. This would require two additional TV sets and Blu-ray players, each requiring the viewer to manually synchronize the playback beforehand (pause at a certain screen) so all three screens' footage runs in sync.

Of course that is rather ridiculous, isn't. But the alternative is fitting the three 4:3 screens into a single TV frame. If Blu-ray has a 1920x1080 resolution, each screen can take up 640 horizontal pixels and 480 vertical pixels. This would be the appropriate proportions :

triptych.png

Essentially this makes the final real shown in standard definition, and the quality is even further reduced for DVD (each screen 284x213).

Forgive the seemingly simple question, but since Coppola owns the United States rights, and the BFI rights only extend to the UK, would I be able to order the BFI version and have them ship it to me in the United States?

Matthew

I don't think Amazon.co.uk cares all that much. It will ship Region 2/B titles to the US, but if you complain that the disc won't play in your player, don't expect any support.

I was pondering this, and I think the ideal solution is seamless branching. This would enable different versions of the film on the same disc without having redundancy. Offer the viewer the option of a "full screen" experience that omits the left and right panels to maximize PQ, and then offer a tryptych version which would seamlessly branch to the Polyvision scenes where applicable.

It would be wonderful to have both versions of Gance's Napoleon released together in one well thought out package, but with complicated rights issues at stake this isn't likely to happen. The primary reasons are: 1. both reconstructions are being done by competing interests with very different agendas, and 2. the legal ambiguities favor regional ownership rights divided among parties with competing interpretations of the original work. It will be up to the consumer to decide which version best interprets the vision of Abel Gance, auteur of the original work.

One could argue that the driving issue complicating either release has to do with music scoring rights and that Gance's monumental work has taken a back seat. But regardless of the motivations, each reconstruction will likely offer different interpretations of Gance's film presented at differing film speeds to accommodate scoring choices. To a greater or lesser extent each reconstruction will be based on different elements, so it's unlikely that seamless branching would be possible even if both versions could be packaged together.

As for the Triptych sequence being presented to maximize effect on WS (16:9) television and HT projector displays, there probably won't be a perfect solution, but my suspicions are that the compromises will be few and very satisfying given the current SOTA display technologies. It's logical to assume that the film will be presented in it's proper academy aspect ratio (4:3 pillar boxed on WS TVs) until the triptych sequence and then expanded to WS format (16:9) or letter-boxed WS (2.35:1) for the triptych.

All of this is certainly rife for speculation, but taking a glass half full approach ...of fine French wine... is the best option. Judging from the Oakland screenings we can expect an excellent presentation from Kevin Brownlow and Carl Davis. A separate home video release from Zoetrope/Harris promises to be closer to the much longer premiere version that purportedly includes rediscovered footage and camera negative elements. If that proves true, it would be icing on an already delicious cake. From my perspective, the competition will only serve to make both releases better.

[WaverBoy]

And finally, how did lost elements amounting to over an hour of recovered footage somehow get overlooked during Kevin Brownlow's quest? That's the most perplexing question of all given that restoring Gance's Napoleon has been the preservationist's life-long passion. For decades he searched through private collections, film vaults and national archives hunting down all known existing footage in an attempt to properly reconstruct this cinematic masterpiece.

I'd also love to know the answer to this.

[Mark Zimmer]

Inevitably, there will be stuff in one version that's not in the other, so the only real winners will be the bootleggers who assemble both versions into a definitive one. This is just so shortsighted, but that's par for the course with this poor movie.

[wich2]

>Inevitably, there will be stuff in one version that's not in the other ... This is just so shortsighted<

It is indeed, Mark. And it's one of the saddest things in the field:

That fiefdoms prevent the cooperation that could result in more "definitive" editions - as well as actually SAVE all parties money, in the long run.

-Craig

[SilentsPlease]

Weren't we told not too long ago that this would never be released on Blu-ray/DVD nor shown on TV? I wonder what changed. Usually, it's not so much that minds were changed as PEOPLE were. Has Napolean's property changed hands in some way(s) or at some level(s), causing a shift in attitudes?

[wich2]

Generally in such cases, someone decided there might actually be a few pence to be garnered.

(For many years, folks carped, "Marvel and the Studios will never iron out the details - there will never be a SPIDER-MAN movie!")

[SilentsPlease]

Generally in such cases, someone decided there might actually be a few pence to be garnered.

(For many years, folks carped, "Marvel and the Studios will never iron out the details - there will never be a SPIDER-MAN movie!")

But weren't there some peculiar copyright issues that had prevented Blu-ray/DVD releases? The Coppola score issue, or perhaps some others? Is it possible that someone decided to "let go" some of those issues and approve the BD/DVD releases? Regarding their supposed financial motives, it might cost more than usual to make a BD/DVD for this film. I remember this old FAQ from the San Francisco Silent Film Festival that said "the cost of recording the 5½ hour Carl Davis score is prohibitively expensive for the DVD/BluRay market."

[wich2]

>Is it possible that someone decided to "let go" some of those issues and approve the BD/DVD releases?<

I'd guess so - but again, they rarely do that if they think they'll lose money by the move.

-Craig

[Great Hierophant]

Generally in such cases, someone decided there might actually be a few pence to be garnered.

(For many years, folks carped, "Marvel and the Studios will never iron out the details - there will never be a SPIDER-MAN movie!")

But weren't there some peculiar copyright issues that had prevented Blu-ray/DVD releases? The Coppola score issue, or perhaps some others? Is it possible that someone decided to "let go" some of those issues and approve the BD/DVD releases? Regarding their supposed financial motives, it might cost more than usual to make a BD/DVD for this film. I remember this old FAQ from the San Francisco Silent Film Festival that said "the cost of recording the 5½ hour Carl Davis score is prohibitively expensive for the DVD/BluRay market."

One finds that a curious statement, considering that elsewhere on that page, they acknowledge "The 4-hour version with the Coppola score has been shown on television in the U.S. and was released on VHS and laserdisc, but never on DVD in this country." Is an extra hour and a half the straw that breaks the camel's back? Surely the DVD/Blu-ray market is stronger in 2016 than the VHS/LaserDisc market was back in 1986 when Napoleon was released with the Coppola score.

When they released Napoleon back in 1986, they could have used a live recording of Coppola score from one of the screenings. Perhaps BFI is using a live recording of Davis conducting the orchestra back from 2012 when the film was shown.

As I noted above, a truly comprehensive release of the film would include the wings of the triptych reel on separate discs so that you could conceivably view the images on separate screens and with separate players in the same fine detail as the rest of the film. While imaginative and fitting the grandeur of the film, that would probably the straw that broke the camel's back.