Masterpieces You Don't Really Care For

[Arndt]

....and how about Untergang/Downfall ??? Terrific performances......

You're right, I forgot that one. A Bruno Ganz tour de force. Terrifyingly believable.

[Frederica]

Light candles for me - the Liz/Burt/Rex Cleopatra will likely be under the tree next month. Is there a breakdown available of what Mamoulian footage (if any) made the final cut?

You are in for a tasty four course ham dinner with Cleopatra! Make sure you have appropriate beverages close to hand. I have no idea if any of Mamoulian's footage survived the final cut, I'm usually so busy enjoying the heck out of its abundant excesses that I don't pay any attention to whatever nuance there might be. Nuance in Cleopatra, the mind boggles.

Fred

[Micromegas]

Sunrise was a disappointment.. maybe because of the tremendous expectations. OK but ...

Steve

[deverett]

I find it so great and amazing the differences between everyone's dislikes. I love NANA, and I would say that WINGS is probably one of my most favorite and in all fairness absolutely none of us have actualy seen WINGS - since we have never seen the tinted / special colored / magnascope / synchronized sound effects / live orchestra version , even though it has been preserved no less than 3 times. Some day I hope....Until then keep hatin and Ill keep lovin...

[silentfilm]

I find it so great and amazing the differences between everyone's dislikes. I love NANA, and I would say that WINGS is probably one of my most favorite and in all fairness absolutely none of us have actualy seen WINGS - since we have never seen the tinted / special colored / magnascope / synchronized sound effects / live orchestra version , even though it has been preserved no less than 3 times. Some day I hope....Until then keep hatin and Ill keep lovin...

I used to have the Wings laserdisc. While I enjoyed it, it seemed a little bit long. A couple of years ago I was able to be the projectionist for a screening with Clark Wilson on a theater organ. It was a different film. The deep bass of the organ really got the seats rumbling during the combat scenes.

I'll agree with Frederica that Gary Cooper makes a huge impression in a small role. I also think that Jobyna Ralston was wasted in her small part. It is a good film -- exactly the kind that wins the Best Picture Oscar. I think that The Big Parade is much better, basically because it is much more emotional. In TBP you really feel the euphoria of enlisting, the drudgery of training, the sweet romance, the horror of the war, and the sense of loss after it is all over.

[Ferdinand Von Galitzien]

Well... finally this German count is going to speak plainly about those oeuvres or directors that are not very well appreciated by the German aristocracy...

And the winner is: D. W. Griffith

This Herr Von knows the importance of being David in the silent film history but honestly... those loong epic pictures, candid tiny girls and serious melodramas are not this Herr Graf's likeness.

Herr Graf Ferdinand Von Galitzien
http://ferdinandvongalitzien.blogspot.com/

[Penfold]

Well... finally this German count is going to speak plainly about those oeuvres or directors that are not very well appreciated by the German aristocracy...

And the winner is: D. W. Griffith

This Herr Von knows the importance of being David in the silent film history but honestly... those loong epic pictures, candid tiny girls and serious melodramas are not this Herr Graf's likeness.

Herr Graf Ferdinand Von Galitzien
http://ferdinandvongalitzien.blogspot.com/

Have you seen Battle of the Sexes??? DWG directs a pre-code comedy drama with Phyllis Haver???

[Ferdinand Von Galitzien]

Have you seen Battle of the Sexes??? DWG directs a pre-code comedy drama with Phyllis Haver???

Nein... so, after having read this German count your praised words about "Battle Of The Sexes", this strict German aristocrat is willing to give Herr David his umpteenth chance.

Herr Graf Ferdinand Von Galitzien
http://ferdinandvongalitzien.blogspot.com/

[Ole Sundsby]

...pretty much mentioned every film and director that I LIKE...What do you LIKE?





I guess to invert this thread doesn't make much sense, but is there anybody out there but me that likes films by BERGMAN, WENDERS, DREYER, TARKOVSKY etc. etc.?

Ole

[Frederica]

...pretty much mentioned every film and director that I LIKE...What do you LIKE?

I guess to invert this thread doesn't make much sense, but is there anybody out there but me that likes films by BERGMAN, WENDERS, DREYER, TARKOVSKY etc. etc.?

Ole

I like Wenders.

Fred

[Arndt]

I guess to invert this thread doesn't make much sense, but is there anybody out there but me that likes films by BERGMAN, WENDERS, DREYER, TARKOVSKY etc. etc.?Ole

I like WENDERS, DREYER and TARKOVSKY. Not necessarily all of their output, but they all have made wonderful films.

[rollot24]

I guess to invert this thread doesn't make much sense, but is there anybody out there but me that likes films by BERGMAN, WENDERS, DREYER, TARKOVSKY etc. etc.?

I like BERGMAN

[Richard M Roberts]

I guess to invert this thread doesn't make much sense, but is there anybody out there but me that likes films by BERGMAN, WENDERS, DREYER, TARKOVSKY etc. etc.?

I like BERGMAN

So do I, especially THE IN-LAWS and THE FRESHMAN.

As for Dreyers, I think they have the best chocolate.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

[Penfold]

I guess to invert this thread doesn't make much sense, but is there anybody out there but me that likes films by BERGMAN, WENDERS, DREYER, TARKOVSKY etc. etc.?

Ole

I haven't seen enough of their work yet to be dogmatic; but I have to put The Passion of Joan of Arc as one of THE masterpieces of silent cinema.

[rollot24]

I haven't seen enough of their work yet to be dogmatic; but I have to put The Passion of Joan of Arc as one of THE masterpieces of silent cinema.

I agree. The only other Dreyer I've seen is VAMPYR, but it was 30+ years ago, at a midnight show, so I don't remember enough to have a real opinion.

[Mike Gebert]

So do I, especially THE IN-LAWS and THE FRESHMAN.

Hear hear! I could quote The In-Laws all day long. Serpentine, Shel! And I really think The Freshman belongs in the pantheon of Brando performances, not for strenuous great acting but for lived-in charm-- that scene where he goes to Broderick's dorm room and they talk about his dad's poem is just so sweet and affecting. Charm counts for a lot, looking back a hundred years later.

As for Ingmar... I think he's one of those guys you have to just watch straight through, film after film. Come to one cold and you'll just go away making jokes about gloomy Swedes, but follow as he works through his faith or lack thereof, his German Expressionist fixation, etc. and the pretension fades and you see the superb direction of actors and oh-so-serious worldview and attempts to find a way to wrestle with the big questions on film.

Plus, it feel so good when you stop.

[radiotelefonia]

So do I, especially THE IN-LAWS and THE FRESHMAN.

Hear hear! I could quote The In-Laws all day long. Serpentine, Shel! And I really think The Freshman belongs in the pantheon of Brando performances, not for strenuous great acting but for lived-in charm-- that scene where he goes to Broderick's dorm room and they talk about his dad's poem is just so sweet and affecting. Charm counts for a lot, looking back a hundred years later.

As for Ingmar... I think he's one of those guys you have to just watch straight through, film after film. Come to one cold and you'll just go away making jokes about gloomy Swedes, but follow as he works through his faith or lack thereof, his German Expressionist fixation, etc. and the pretension fades and you see the superb direction of actors and oh-so-serious worldview and attempts to find a way to wrestle with the big questions on film.

Plus, it feel so good when you stop.

Have you ever heard about a fillmmaker called Enrique Carreras?

[WaverBoy]

...I would say that WINGS is probably one of my most favorite and in all fairness absolutely none of us have actualy seen WINGS - since we have never seen the tinted / special colored / magnascope / synchronized sound effects / live orchestra version , even though it has been preserved no less than 3 times. Some day I hope....Until then keep hatin and Ill keep lovin...

Please elaborate...how does the Magnascope process work? And how was this presentation preserved?

[Gagman 66]

Speedy,

Here is a great quote from Kevin Browlow that tells us more. I did not ask the question here.

"I've read how THE BIG PARADE was augmented by special stage lighting, music, and sound effects, especially during the battle scenes, during its original New York run, making it a real multimedia presentation. Was this a common practice in the silent era, and if so, what other films received this type of treatment?"

Brownlow: "Yes, presentation of big silent pictures was often spectacular. David Gill and I interviewed director Arthur Lubin for our documentary on D W Griffith because as a kid he had dropped cannonballs along wooden runways to suggest the sound of distant gunfire for the San Diego presentation of THE BIRTH OF A NATION. He was just one of several special effects men. CHANG, the Cooper-Schoedsack drama-documentary, had 6 foot thunder drums behind the screen which went into action when the screen enlarged for the elephant stampede. Exhibitors were always trying to turn silents into sound films! WINGS was so successful that in 1928 it was equipped with an RCA Photophone track consisting of the sound of aeroplane engines and machine guns - and run double head - separate from the picture - to thrilled audiences. (The orchestra was still pounding away in the pit live the whole time!).

[Arndt]

I haven't seen enough of their work yet to be dogmatic; but I have to put The Passion of Joan of Arc as one of THE masterpieces of silent cinema.

I couldn't agree more. I saw it again two weeks ago on the big screen. What a treat!

[deverett]

Please elaborate...how does the Magnascope process work? And how was this presentation preserved?

First this was one of the points I was making that this has NOT been part of the preservations sadly. In fact very few cinemas would even have the capabilities of accomplishing this these days making it a film (not unlike Napolean and the triptychs) that would need to be presented in a non theatrical environment.

In brief. the magnescope process was used to magnify the image (both horizontal and vertical) at certain points during the film. During the aerial battle scenes the magnascope was applied

[WaverBoy]

Thanks Gagman and deverett. So, if I'm understanding correctly, all the Magnascope process does is just proportionately enlarge the picture during certain scenes? I can live without that, which wouldn't work well on video for those of us with old-school 26" CRT televisions, but does the RCA Photophone effects track survive? How about the original cue sheets for the orchestral score? It would be cool if the original score (if it's a good one, of course) and the effects track could be used as an audio option for a future restored DVD.

[WaverBoy]

Singin' in the Rain (1952, MGM): Another film with an undeserved reputation and over-rated star. There is absolutely zilch in this film that I find innovative or particularly likable, and the simpering, whining rendition of the title song can't touch Cliff Edwards's brilliant version. There's the pretentious, pointless ballet, mediocre comedy, and broad libeling of silent and early sound performers that has infected film history ever since.

SINGIN' IN THE RAIN is definitely way overrated, but I do like it, and at the very least I don't see how a bad word can possibly be said about Donald O'Connor's magnificent "Make 'em Laugh" (I know it's a copy of "Be A Clown" from THE PIRATE, but it's just as good in its own way, dammit). An absolute stunner IMO.

[WaverBoy]

3. THE CIRCUS
A couple of great sequences, but overall a smug and annoying Chaplin picture.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe THE CIRCUS was ever hailed by anyone as a masterpiece; on the contrary, it seems to have been generally regarded as the least of his silent starring features. My main beef with it is the horribly contrived plot device of Rex, the tightrope walker. There's no way he would have let the girl's father treat her like that. He's not remotely a believable character. But my god, the scene of Charlie and the monkeys on the tightrope is an absolute scream, one of the finest moments of his career.

[deverett]

How about the original cue sheets for the orchestral score? It would be cool if the original score (if it's a good one, of course)

The original score was by J. S. Zamecnik, and the cue sheets are out there as are most of the paramount silents. I have not found any RCA photophone discs though, but they are quite possibly out there as well.

[Mike Gebert]

I don't think there was anything to preserve with Magnascope-- it was just a matter of switching lenses at certain reels.

Has anyone seen the Imax presentation of The Dark Knight? I know they shot certain action scenes with an Imax camera, it my do a similar thing, expand the screen at those points. Doug Trumbull's Brainstorm did-- it went ffrom 35mm for reality scenes to 70mm for the scenes in which people were using the, basically, brainwave VCR. (It was actually projected in 70mm the whole way through, but "reality" was a 35mm-sized 4:3 image in the center of the frame.)

[FrankFay]

If I have my facts straight, the thing that made Magnascope impressive was that at certain points they changes lenses and also could enlarge the screen by pulling back the masking pieces- or was that a different process?

[Harlett O'Dowd]

SINGIN' IN THE RAIN is definitely way overrated, but I do like it, and at the very least I don't see how a bad word can possibly be said about Donald O'Connor's magnificent "Make 'em Laugh" (I know it's a copy of "Be A Clown" from THE PIRATE, but it's just as good in its own way, dammit). An absolute stunner IMO.

Singin' in The Rain *is* a masterpiece and is arguably the greatest original musical to come out of Hollywood - maybe even the best ever.

Curiously, however, I have never heard any critic explain why.

This, IMHO, is why:

it starts on a high note and never loses any of its energy from start to finish.

Now, it's not the funniest screenplay in history. An excuse to recycle a second-rate collection of songs, there are tens of other musicals out there with better scores and there's not a moment in the film that can compare to, say, the barnraising dance in 7 Brides for Seven Brothers or the An American in Paris ballet or the best of Berkeley.

But SITR starts on a high note - "Fit As a Fiddle" - a high point had it appeared in any musical film. Then there's not much to wait for "Make 'em Laugh." A reel or two later we have - in pretty quick order - "Moses," "Good Mornin'" the title tune and the Broadway ballet. Each number tops the one before it and even the less than top drawer numbers - "All I Do Is Dream of You," "Beautiful Girl," "You Were Meant For Me" manage to keep the ball up in the air and not lose any of the energy that has already been generated.

Michael Billington, of the Guardian, wrote this about a recent London stage revival of Guys and Dolls: "But, as I always say, musicals are about ecstasy and there are two moments when this show really hits the button."

SITR hits the button no less than six times and once you reach that first moment of ecstasy, you stay up there for another 90 minutes. Try as I might, I can't think of another musical - on stage or screen - that keeps the ball up in the air so consistantly. I've floated higher, but never for that long.

[Mike Gebert]

I'm with you, Harlett, Singin' in the Rain is as great as any musical with Gene Kelly instead of Fred Astaire is ever going to get.

One of my theories is that filmmakers often do their best work when slumming a little, kicking back and taking it easy. Powell and Pressburger were in their most serious and self-consciously arty period, the time of big Technicolor statements like The Red Shoes, Black Narcissus, A Matter of Life and Death, Colonel Blimp-- and they knocked off a little black and white movie shooting half on location with doubles and half in a studio, and it's I Know Where I'm Going, their most human and affecting movie.

Likewise Donen and Kelly, taking a breather after An American In Paris, threw together a revue of old songs-- and their sheer joy at being at the top of their form came shining through.

[rollot24]

I agree with Mike. The reason SITR works so well for me is, it really looks like the cast is having the time of their lives. The joy is infectious and it never fails, no matter how many times I see it.