Rediscovered RKO titles coming to DVD

Harold Aherne · Post by **Harold Aherne** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:00 pm

It appears that TCM will be issuing on DVD the six RKO titles that had been uncirculated for some decades. By now everyone likely knows what the titles are, but just in case:

Double Harness (1933)
One Man's Journey (1933)
Rafter Romance (1933)
Stingaree (1934)
Living on Love (1937)
A Man to Remember (1938)

Release date is 8 December; information and artwork are located here. They will apparently be available only through the TCM website; there is no indication of what Warner Home Video's role is in these, if any. But there is information on a TCM "vault collection", which it seems will offer other little-known titles in a similar format.

-Harold

Richard P. May · Post by **Richard P. May** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:36 am

These pictures are now wholly owned by TCM, having acquired them from the Merian C. Cooper heirs.

radiotelefonia · Post by **radiotelefonia** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:27 pm

How about DI QUE ME QUIERAS which nobody seems to care whether it is lost or not.

Harold Aherne · Post by **Harold Aherne** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:13 pm

radiotelefonia wrote:How about DI QUE ME QUIERAS which nobody seems to care whether it is lost or not.

Well, I don't know if it's the case that no one cares about it--it's just that the Spanish-language features produced in Hollywood during the 30s have gotten very little attention from researchers (as far as I know, anyway). Only Dracula and the handful of Laurel & Hardy Spanish films are mentioned very much, but there were probably several dozen features made in Spanish and other languages during that decade, for domestic and overseas audiences. Fox made films in Spanish up to 1935--for example, El Caballero de la noche (1932) with José Mojica and Mona Maris, a remake of Tom Mix's Dick Turpin. Some polyglot stars appeared only in the alternate version of a film: Antonio Moreno did about 10 of them; Pauline Garon made a few, and Jetta Goudal made one of her two talkies in French (MGM's Le Spectre vert, alternate of The Unholy Night ).

Many of these might be worth screening (Fox's La Ciudad de Cartón from 1934 even has cameos by Lionel Barrymore, Janet Gaynor, and Robert Young). But I don't know if it exists, nor have I seen conclusive archival information about most of these interesting films.

-Harold

radiotelefonia · Post by **radiotelefonia** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:35 pm

The only researcher interested in these films is Robert G. Dickson, to whom I have provided information and whose book (Cita en Hollywood, with Juan Heinink) has been an inspiration for me.

It's interesting to think that Dolores Del Río never made a film in Spanish in Hollywood (she did them in Mexico and one in Argentina). A few directors who made those Spanish language films, Richard Harlan and John Reinhardt, ended in Buenos Aires.

Fox Film Corporation managed to survive (before its merger with 20th Century Pictures) thanks to their Spanish language series. LA GRAN JORNADA, for instance was the big success than its sister version, THE BIG TRAIL, wasn't.

MGM Spanish language films (like EL PRESIDIO, EL PROCESO A MARY DUGAN, etc.) were always well received and the one I would like to see is WU-LI-CHAN, a sound remake of MR. WU shot in Spanish only starring Ernesto Vilches, a popular actor in both Spain and Argentina who created the part in my natural language.

Paramount settled a production unit in Joinville, France, in order to create foreign language remakes of American films. The results were always disastrous, and only their original films, like the Carlos Gardel films, succeeded.

It's interesting that only DRACULA is one of the few mentioned. That film was considered a total disaster in Spanish, on its day (it seems that researchers didn't research at all) and it forced Universal to abandon multilanguage productions. Ironically, their previous efforts were much better.

Who was behind the recovery and restoration of the Laurel and Hardy Spanish language films? Again, Robert G. Dickson.

What put an end to these kind of productions was the tragic death of Carlos Gardel.

greta de groat · Post by **greta de groat** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:47 pm

Personally, i would love to see more of these multilingual films. A lot seem to be lost, though. Aren't the French versions of the Chevalier/MacDonald films lost? How about WIR SCHALTEN UM AUF HOLLYWOOD? How about any of Antonio Moreno's films? I think the Novarro ones exist, and i sure wish TCM would play them. I believe i've read, though, that many weren't well received in Latin America because of the accents. Moreno would have had a Spanish accent and Novarro a Mexican one, and perhaps their accents weren't so well received in Argentina or Cuba or elsewhere in the Spanish-speaking world? Anyway, what's what film books here say--is this corroborated in accounts actually written in Latin America? Or is this another early talkie myth?

I'd love to see not only the Hollywood ones, but the European ones as well. Has anybody actually seen all 3 versions of FP1 or Congress Dances?

greta

Jay Salsberg · Post by **Jay Salsberg** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:51 am

I have seen both the English and German versions of F.P.1 and DER KONGRESS TANZT. The former is a snoozer, the later is great in any language. The French versions are still out there... supposedly.

Harold Aherne · Post by **Harold Aherne** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:16 pm

greta de groat wrote:Personally, i would love to see more of these multilingual films. A lot seem to be lost, though. Aren't the French versions of the Chevalier/MacDonald films lost? How about WIR SCHALTEN UM AUF HOLLYWOOD? How about any of Antonio Moreno's films? I think the Novarro ones exist, and i sure wish TCM would play them. I believe i've read, though, that many weren't well received in Latin America because of the accents. Moreno would have had a Spanish accent and Novarro a Mexican one, and perhaps their accents weren't so well received in Argentina or Cuba or elsewhere in the Spanish-speaking world? Anyway, what's what film books here say--is this corroborated in accounts actually written in Latin America? Or is this another early talkie myth?

greta

Une Heure près de toi seems to be lost, although La Veuve joyeuse does exist. Le Lieutenant souriant, per the AFI, was probably just a dubbed version and not really a separate film; I don't know its status. Wir schalten um auf Hollywood is discussed extensively in A Song in the Dark, and Barrios gives enough detail that he must have seen it.

Have any of the Keaton films done in Spanish or French been screened in recent years? I know TCM has shown clips of them in one documentary or another; Buster's Spanish is choppy enough that audiences in Spain and Latin America must have been amused, but it's the best anyone could do reciting dialogue phonetically (I doubt my attempts at Hungarian or Armenian would be any better!).

-Harold

radiotelefonia · Post by **radiotelefonia** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:44 pm

I am who did investigate about the release of multinaguage versions of films in Argentina. For instance: DER KONGRESS TANZT was originally released in its French version. It was so successful that they also decided to release its German version one or two months later.

All of the Maurice Chevalier vehicles were simultaneously released in both their English and French versions. However, reviewers always mentioned that the former productions were always superior the latter ones.

Unlike what you said, Greta, the Spanish language films were extremely well received. The notorious exceptions were from Universal: First there was BROADWAY, whose relase was a total disaster, and the other big failure was DRACULA. The other flops, though not as scandalous ones, were the Paramount remakes produced in Joinville, plus a few of their original productions in either Spanish or another language.

When a studio produced a film in English and any other language but Spanish, all the versions were simultaneously released but the English one was probably the succesful one. If there was a Spanish version, only that version would ever be released.

The studios also produced a number of films in either Spanish, French or German, without an English version. Fox produced original stories but the other companies basically made sound remakes of their silents.

The problems are not really the accents, but how you handle them. Mona Maris, did not have an authentic Spanish accent (and it was recognized by herself) since she left Argentina being a child, moving to France first and then Germany where she started her career. Once in Hollywood, she recovered by getting together with the Mexican and Spanish actors.

Some stars of these productions manage to use their popularity for their own benefits: Ramón Novarro made presentations at LR3 Radio Belgrano in 1934 (MGM, at the same time, released his final film for the studio). Remember the sheet music of the tango "Canto de amor"; that is from that ocassion.

The previous year, Mexican born (though raised in Argentina) Rosita Moreno appeared in a stage production in which she recreated some scenes of her Spanish language films. And these was before her films with Carlos Gardel. She would later made a couple of films in Buenos Aires.

Mona Maris was a great witness of all this, although nobody in the United States ever questioned about her career. Fortunately, she extensively anwered questions about her career, Gardel and Hollywood in Argentina for years before her death. Interviews have survived in audiotapes, videotapes and probably 16mm stock film.

radiotelefonia · Post by **radiotelefonia** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:39 pm

radiotelefonia · Post by **radiotelefonia** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:40 pm

radiotelefonia · Post by **radiotelefonia** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:33 pm

When Bob Dickson and Juan Heinink wrote "Cita en Hollywood", they mostly concentrated in a Spain view of the Spanish language Hollywood production because Heinink is actually in Spain, and there they found more elements than in the rest of Latin America.

This Spanish language complement to their landmark book is a perfect complement to it. My own research of the issue (following their lead but with a more Argentine and, when possible, Latin American view) came after these, elements that I actually didn't have access at the time:

http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/servlet ... /index.htm

JB Kaufman · Post by **JB Kaufman** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:15 am

To get back to the original subject of this thread, does anyone have comments on the RKO discs? I haven't picked them up yet, and I'm interested, but I note that a number of people are unhappy because the discs aren't mastered in the usual way, but come as DVD-Rs. (A friend at the company tells me that this was done only to facilitate "publishing on demand," as opposed to maintaining a big inventory in a warehouse.) My problem is that I don't really know how much difference that makes, if any. Can anyone weigh in with technical knowledge on whether DVD-Rs really are inferior to the normal commercial product -- and if they are, how serious the difference is? Thanks - JB

Jack Theakston · Post by **Jack Theakston** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:05 pm

Considering the return rate and expense of DVD-Rs, I'm really shocked that a company like WB opted to do these discs this way when it would actually be cheaper for them just to press a thousand discs and be done with it.

Post by **Danny Burk** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:01 pm

I'm always reluctant to buy DVD-R releases due to their (alleged) lower expected lifespan than a real pressed DVD. Their manufacture method is basically the same as burning a DVD yourself from TCM, although the image quality of these releases should be much better than a recording from cable or satellite broadcast.

That said, a new WB bombshell has just hit:

http://www.wbshop.com/Warner-Archive/AR ... lt,sc.html

About 150 titles so far, all available as "on-demand" DVD-Rs, including about a dozen silents. Supposedly many more to come; $19.95 each.

Darren Nemeth · Post by **Darren Nemeth** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:17 pm

Danny Burk wrote:About 150 titles so far, all available as "on-demand" DVD-Rs, including about a dozen silents. Supposedly many more to come; $19.95 each.

Which silents do they have?

I did a search by decade and it starts with the 1930s.

Post by **Danny Burk** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:26 pm

Darren Nemeth wrote:Which silents do they have?

I did a search by decade and it starts with the 1930s.

You have to look at "By Format: Warner Archive" to see everything; a few silents come up if you look at "1930s", but most do not. Here are the silents listed in this first batch of 150 titles:

EXIT SMILING
THE KISS
LOVE
THE RED LILY
THE RED MILL
SCARAMOUCHE
THE SINGLE STANDARD
SOULS FOR SALE
SPRING FEVER
THE TEMPRESS (already available in another set)
TRAIL OF '98
WILD ORCHIDS

According to late info at HTF, these are supposedly NOT DVD-Rs, but real pressed DVDs. HTF is hosting the sort-of annual WB Chat on Monday night, and there will be additional info then, plus more titles.

Post by **Danny Burk** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:31 pm

I notice that none of the oft-requested high profile titles such as GREED, THE WIND, BIG PARADE, etc. are included in this batch, so one could assume that WB is still planning a "normal" release for those titles. Ditto for Chaney films.

There are quite a few 30s titles in this list too, weighted heavily toward Gable/Crawford, but with a few surprises such as EMMA.

The bad news for our overseas friends is that these are for sale only to US addresses, but there is no reason that they can't be reshipped after shipment to one's friend in the US. Cumbersome to be sure, but not a major problem as long as one has a willing "partner".

boblipton · Post by **boblipton** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:42 pm

First, let me say explicitly what others have not: this is great news. I know that people will be b****ing and moaning that these are not all dvd releases and that dvd-r is a more unstable medium that dvd, but what it comes down to is that a lot of prime material that has not been available will be made available. Thank you again, TCM.

I await the moaning about the poor quality of the prints, the lack of good musical scores and extras, and so forth. Which I will ignore.

Bob

Post by **Danny Burk** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:21 pm

boblipton wrote:First, let me say explicitly what others have not: this is great news. I know that people will be b****ing and moaning that these are not all dvd releases and that dvd-r is a more unstable medium that dvd, but what it comes down to is that a lot of prime material that has not been available will be made available. Thank you again, TCM.

I await the moaning about the poor quality of the prints, the lack of good musical scores and extras, and so forth. Which I will ignore.

Bob

I'm quick to agree that it *is* great news and I find it very exciting. I'm expecting to add a lot of these to my collection.

Penfold · Post by **Penfold** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:08 pm

The Church Mouse is an interesting choice; a WB/First National quota quickie made at Teddington, one of a raft shown on TCMUS late last year; will the others follow?? As these have yet to be screened over here, within living memory at least, we can but hope....

35MM · Post by **35MM** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:34 pm

Darren Nemeth wrote:
Danny Burk wrote:About 150 titles so far, all available as "on-demand" DVD-Rs, including about a dozen silents. Supposedly many more to come; $19.95 each.
Which silents do they have?

I did a search by decade and it starts with the 1930s.

The website is apparently still being updated, the link for the '20's decade appeared today, but only 4 of the 13 films shown are silents. Also note these DVD-R's are not exactly like the ones you make on a home computer. They use a proprietary technology from HP and are supposed to be superior, time will tell. I know that some music CD's are being created with Blue-Spec. Same resolution as regular CD's but using blue wavelength lasers to create the masters. More accurate pits and whatnot. Or maybe it's in the media itself, gold based dyes are the most stable.

N_Phay · Post by **N_Phay** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:50 pm

I read about this last night, and am amazed and delighted. If you'd told me last year that WB would be issuing a Marion Davies silent on DVD I'd probably have laughed.

Slightly annoyed about the US-only thing, but there'll be ways around that I'm sure.

Jim Reid · Post by **Jim Reid** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:48 pm

N_Phay wrote:Slightly annoyed about the US-only thing, but there'll be ways around that I'm sure.

According to the online chat last night, that's only temporary.

Richard P. May · Post by **Richard P. May** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:55 am

This thread, which started out regarding TCM's release of six former RKO films to DVD, has now evolved into discussion of the new WB policy of direct sales of many older films.

Shouldn't the latter be in its own thread? The TCM releases have nothing to do with WB.