Oldest surviving pro wrestling film?

[Darren Nemeth]

I have a 2 to 3 minute fragment from a pro wrestling film. Kodak neg date code is 1921.

Bout shown is Zbyszko vs Lewis.

George Bothner is ref.

Also appearing in the film is Joe Stecher (ex World Champ) and Jack Curley.

Apparently, wikkipedia says Zbyszko, Lewis and Stecher formed the Gold Dust Trio and Jack Curley was "...perhaps the most important sports promoter of the early 1900s. He managed several high-profile boxing events around the turn-of-the-century and he also established professional wrestling as a viable business in the big city, and he eventually built the New York office into an industry power while negotiating an agreement between the nation’s most powerful regional territories."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Curley

Besides the below 1920 three reeler, would anyone know of any other pro wrestling films or films featuring the above legends dating further back than 1921?

WORLD'S CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING MATCH BETWEEN JOE STECHER AND EARL CADDOCK. 1920. 3 reels.

Pioneer Film Corp.; title, descr. & 131 prints. 27Feb20; LU14792.

[Ken Viewer]

Darren,

A group of wrestling researchers has been on the trail of pre-1920 footage for some years, and the earliest footage of wrestlers whose names are known, and one of whom was famous, dates from 1895. It was apparently filmed in Germany and the great researcher who located a digitized version has uploaded it to Youtube.

The newsreels divisions of some film companies -- defining "newsreel" as a film that was non-fiction and newsworthy -- were shooting boxing, wrestling and various other athletic events from the earliest days of public-exhibition halls.

I'd love to see the Lewis vs Zbyszko footage you've discovered. Can you PM me or upload it to Youtube (or elsewhere), with a link posted here?

I've put together an embryonic semi-database of what we've found, which is limited to the capabilities of the BBS software used by the site, here (and, if I've violated NitrateVille's rules, I ask the administrators here to remove the link, with my apology):

http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultim ... forum;f=10

The newsreel-archive assembled so-far is about ten percent of what's out there. Search the Lou Thesz (legendary professional wrestler) Forum for the words "LINK" or "FILM" and most of it should come up, in a series of pages.

The 1895 wrestling film is here:



Best,

Ken Viewer

[Darren Nemeth]

Hi, Ken,

I plan to have my telecine finished by the end of the years and will post here when the film fragment is scanned in. My hopes is it will be in HD and I will make the clip a free download and put it up on youtube.

I have another wrestling fragment that I'll post frame closeups in this thread over the weekend.

Darren

[Ken Viewer]

Hi, Darren,

Thank you, in advance, for your efforts and your ongoing work. A bunch of us are now looking forward to the digitization of the film and its upload to Youtube.

As for the still-frames you're going to post here, all I can say is fabulous. I'm eagerly waiting.

Best,

Ken

[Darren Nemeth]

Hi, Darren,

Thank you, in advance, for your efforts and your ongoing work. A bunch of us are now looking forward to the digitization of the film and its upload to Youtube.

As for the still-frames you're going to post here, all I can say is fabulous. I'm eagerly waiting.

Best,

Ken

Here is one from the second wrestling clip I mentioned. Just located it on my webspace. I'll post more this weekend but that is about what is in it. Wrestlers against a backdrop.

[Ken Viewer]

Thanks for the first of the frames. Do you have any details about who is in the film or when /where it was shot? On first glance, it appears to be a full-out match, rather than a demonstration.

What looks to be a stage-curtain may be the tell on what we're seeing. Before the construction of large indoor arenas, which, in most cities, were first built after World War I, professional wrestling matches were typically presented in opera-house auditoriums or playhouses.

Pathe was filming staged wrestling-exhibitions in 1906, and likely later, out-of-doors (for the lighting) in front of drops. Here's a link to one portion of a Gaumont-Pathe archival film from 1906, which, though featuring European wrestlers, was shown in the United States:



The above film is roughly one-third of what was originally publicly-shown, and I suspect the rest of it exists.

Your frames have the Pathe indicia, and the stage-curtain isn't something I've previously seen in demonstration films.

Best,

Ken

[Darren Nemeth]

I have no idea where that clip originates from, sadly.

Here is the British Pathe site and the results for all the "wrestling" films.

http://www.britishpathe.com/results.php ... =wrestling

[Darren Nemeth]

Another resource for wrestling film titles is here.

http://www.archive.org/details/motionpi ... 39librrich

Doa search for varios names, companies and "wrestling". Its the Library Of Congress Copyright Catalog of Motion Pictures dating from 1912 thru 1939.

Naturally, however, if it wasn't copyrighted its not in there.

[Ken Viewer]

Oops, over at the board I linked to, to find the list and links to the newsreels footage "previews" themselves, when you use the "search" button, you want to search in the "Lou Thesz Forum" only.

Then you want to search first for LINK, and when you've found them all, you can search for FILM. These links will take you to free viewable online footage, often in low-resolution formats. The operative word is **free.**

But **always,** in the "search in" box, specify "subject only." If you choose "entire message," you'll get links to photos-pages, in addition to links to films pages.

It's confusing, I know. The alternative was worse.

Best,

Ken

[Ken Viewer]

Darren,

Thanks for the excellent suggestions.

Over the last few years, for instantly-available digitized free preview-footage, I searched British Pathe, the separate Gaumont-Pathe (not viewable without a complex registration), British Movietone at www.movietone.com , Universal Pictures newsreels' selected footage at www.efootage.com and elsewhere, footage represented by HBO, and a few other lesser sites. The American Paramount newsreels archive has disappeared from the Internet, as far as I can tell. British Paramount, Fox Movietone and pre-1927 silent-Fox newsreels, and Hearst are at archives that currently don't offer digitized Internet viewing.

These are not wrestling-centric archives but offer some such footage, which is not the main effort of my research.

The Universal newsreels' archive, all 30 million feet of it, was gifted to the National Archives by Universal decades ago, but the NA has not digitized it, and so one either goes to Maryland to view the footage in-person, or seeks it from such footage-suppliers as efootage. It can also be purchased from some university or college which recorded many DVDs' worth of it and sells this compilation.

News and tips about other hoards and archives that are available for free viewing are always welcome and solicited. My budget is close to zero, and I don't collect (disposed of what I had decades ago).

The European archives often prove to be more respectful to newsreels preservation/restoration, telecining and digitization than their American counterparts.

Best,

Ken

[Darren Nemeth]

Got way too busy with the Batboat this week.

Will try to take and post the photos by Friday night.

[Ken Viewer]

Appreciate your efforts in a world of compelling, competing interests.

Took almost a year, once we knew it existed, for one of the researchers/historians to find and post the 1906 wrestling footage.

The only so-far digitized film of Vaslav Nijinsky (there are dozens of fakes out there, but not as-yet even 24 frames of him dancing) was filmed in 1945 in the just-liberated, war-torn Vienna, and the legendary dancer was by then 55 years old. A French producer of arts programs made a TV show, and licensed some frames of it from a newsreel archive. All we see is him walking. The frames were uploaded to Youtube, and, knowing the details and which archive held it, I posted supporting information for the uploader, whom I don't know. Now the archive has the footage blocked on its own site, I assume as part of the licensing agreement.

Stuff happens as soon as it happens, though not always. Thanks for your continuing work.

Best,

Ken

[Darren Nemeth]

Got way too busy with the Batboat this week.

Will try to take and post the photos by Friday night.

lets just say I will get to this when I am able.

Been very busy lately. Am making it a priority this week, however.

[Darren Nemeth]

Got way too busy with the Batboat this week.

Will try to take and post the photos by Friday night.

lets just say I will get to this when I am able.

Been very busy lately. Am making it a priority this week, however.

Getting it done this weekend. Built a light box a couple of days ago which will let me take better photos of film frames.

[urbanora]

The only so-far digitized film of Vaslav Nijinsky (there are dozens of fakes out there, but not as-yet even 24 frames of him dancing) was filmed in 1945 in the just-liberated, war-torn Vienna, and the legendary dancer was by then 55 years old. A French producer of arts programs made a TV show, and licensed some frames of it from a newsreel archive. All we see is him walking. The frames were uploaded to Youtube, and, knowing the details and which archive held it, I posted supporting information for the uploader, whom I don't know. Now the archive has the footage blocked on its own site, I assume as part of the licensing agreement.

I've spent years telling people that one of the key pieces of film that didn't exist was any film of Nijinsky. It may not be Nijinsky dancing, but it's great to be wrong. Do you know anything about the provenance of the film - amateur film, newsreel, documentary?

[Darren Nemeth]

This is the first time I've tried out my new light box and its perfect for shooting closeups of frames.

Here is the pro-wrestling fragment. Zbyszko verses Lewis.

George Bothner is the ref and Joe Humphries the announcer.

Jack Curley and Joe Stecher, ex world champ, are introduced from the ring.

This must have been one of those big events in New York, I presume.

This came to me in several fragments. I presume I have everything in the right order. It runs just under 2 minutes at 24fps.

The match was filmed with Kodak negative date coded 1921.

[Darren Nemeth]

Here's the other one. I think someone here identified the film stock as coming from the 1920s.

The closeups of the wrestlers faces are the best I could do with the camera I have.

I endeavor to have a HD telecine set up where I can transfer all of my 35mm nitrate fragments and put them out on home video. How long that wait may be depends on the economy. For now frame closeups will have to do, unfortunately.

If projected at 24 frames per second this would run about 45 seconds.

[Darren Nemeth]

For those interested, one of the wrestlers in that clip, Stanislaus Zbyszko, has a prominent role in Night and the City (1950).

I just viewed it through Netflix's instant view and recommend it.

http://www.netflix.com/W

[Ken Viewer]

Darren,

Astounding find and footage not seen in 89 years.

Thank you for the hard work and artistry you're putting in to restoring and the telecine conversion of this film, and, of course, for finding it. I'll post details of the match a little later, and a photo of the Tex Rickard Belt (allegedly diamonds and gold and worth $10,000 in 1921 dollars) that Zbyszko left the ring with after defeating Lewis (the finish is generally-considered to have been predetermined).

Great efforts and I look forward with tremendous eagerness to seeing the restored footage.

And thank you, again.

Ken

[Ken Viewer]

The "Tex Rickard Belt:"

http://tribune-files.imagefortress.com/ ... 1274369375

Here is the account of the match that the New York Times published (bout was on November 28, 1921, likely Thanksgiving) and available for free reading:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fr ... 946095D6CF

Ken

[Ken Viewer]

Here is footage of Wladek Zbyszko, genuine brother of the above-seen Stanislaus Zbyszko. Wladek, also a claimant to the world's heavyweight professional-wrestling championship, but not at the same time as his brother, was not as famous but nonetheless an international star of the wrestling business. He also appeared in bit-roles in three Hollywood movies of the early 1930s, as a wrestler, and I have a link to some footage from one film somewhere, which I'll post as soon as I refind it.

This, however, apparently is workout footage prior to some major wrestling event, and was filmed in 1924. Before you view it, I urge you to turn off your sound, as the film, as seen, was recycled decades later and an idiot's narrative was added for silliness.

This requires Quicktime and some computers have problems with it, so look for the blue word "download," and download it if you get only the green-Apple-screen of blank. The download will play in just about any viewer.

http://fastimages.net/films/movie.jsp?id=3820

The above site has some newsreel footage I've never seen before, and is worth checking out, particularly since preview-versions of the footage are free.

The earliest, so-far, located footage of what we could consider a world's heavyweight professional-wrestling championship match, or a recreation thereof (Edison, for one, was known for recreating boxing matches at his Black Maria studio) that is publicly available, dates from 1901 and we expect to get a digitized copy and upload it to Youtube in the autumn. I'll post the link when it's done. The participants are Ernest (or Ernst) Roeber and August Faust and the match, IIRC, was filmed in New York. Some 167 feet of film survive.

Ken

[Ken Viewer]

The only so-far digitized film of Vaslav Nijinsky (there are dozens of fakes out there, but not as-yet even 24 frames of him dancing) was filmed in 1945 in the just-liberated, war-torn Vienna, and the legendary dancer was by then 55 years old. A French producer of arts programs made a TV show, and licensed some frames of it from a newsreel archive. All we see is him walking. The frames were uploaded to Youtube, and, knowing the details and which archive held it, I posted supporting information for the uploader, whom I don't know. Now the archive has the footage blocked on its own site, I assume as part of the licensing agreement.

I've spent years telling people that one of the key pieces of film that didn't exist was any film of Nijinsky. It may not be Nijinsky dancing, but it's great to be wrong. Do you know anything about the provenance of the film - amateur film, newsreel, documentary?

I have reason to believe there was film shot of Nijinsky dancing; it will turn up, (On one occasion, two of Diaghilev's star dancers surreptitiously borrowed costumes from the troupe, went up to a roof, and danced for a newsreel, in the sunshine. Some of that footage survives.

As for the currently-posted-on-Youtube footage of Nijinsky at 55 in post-War Vienna, I've provided what information I have (including Sol Hurok's aborted attempt to then bring the rediscovered, middle-aged, Nijinsky to the Metropolitan Opera House to perform, almost like a circus act.

Here is the first upload I know of, from a French television production, courtesy of "JozefSterkens2:"



.

I also favor "NIckWallaceSmith's" upload for its music (used for the ballet "Spectre de la Rose") and the still shots that precede the footage. The copyright, if one is current, belongs to Gaumont-Pathe, which is the source of this film. "Nick" took my details and incorporated them in his revised description of the film. Here's the beginning of my description:

The footage is poignant, and it is GENUINE.  Filmed by an Occupation-authorized cameraman on or a few days before September 12, 1945, an American news reporter accompanied Nijinsky. So far, this is the only known-authentic film to surface...



Best,

Ken

[Ken Viewer]

Darren,

You've captured a still-frame image of one of the most-important but least-photographed behind-the-scenes fellows in the wrestling business; a few of us have identified the guy immediately to our right of the seated Strangler Lewis, as his real-world manager, and a wrestling kingpin, Billy Sandow.

Ken

[Ken Viewer]

Not a clue on the other wrestling film you have. No one could identify either wrestler from the best of the stills kindly posted here. I ended up pulling the ID thread off the wrestling board after it started drawing smart-alec comments.

If you have images of other people in that footage and should ever want me to try again, merely post 'em or email. My only guess is that the film, being Pathe-stock, is of European athletes and was shot in Europe in the years before The Great Depression, and then shown in American theaters. The featuring of European professional-wrestling stars in American theaters was an ongoing procedure in the pre-1920s era, and it sporadically continued at least into the mid-1920s.

Film from the 1924 wrestling contests for the Olympic gold-medal in heavyweight freestyle wrestling still exists (Gaumont-Pathe) and shows the winner, Henri Deglane, a Frenchman, in a quarter or semifinalist match. Deglane turned professional and came to America in 1927, where Boston-based wrestling promoter Paul Bowser made him world's professional-wrestling champ within a few years. Within the decade, Deglane returned to France for a long career in the business.

Wish I could report back with more...

Ken

[Ken Viewer]

Darren, any progress in the transfer of this footage to DVD?

If not, do you have a frame showing one or both of the championship belts brought to the ring that night? A biography of Strangler Lewis is finished and scheduled for publication sometime this year, by Steve Yohe.

I'd love to see what Lewis looked like in the ring before he ate a dozen cows at one sitting and blimped up.

Thanks.

Ken

[Darren Nemeth]

Darren, any progress in the transfer of this footage to DVD?

If not, do you have a frame showing one or both of the championship belts brought to the ring that night? A biography of Strangler Lewis is finished and scheduled for publication sometime this year, by Steve Yohe.

I'd love to see what Lewis looked like in the ring before he ate a dozen cows at one sitting and blimped up.

Thanks.

Ken

Sorry. no news. Am saving up all my $ right now to move. This and the transfer all the other films I have are on hold.

[Ken Viewer]

Darren,

Best wishes on your upcoming move. Life does come before hobbies. Maybe next year will find you settled in a new home with time, space, a ten-million dollar grant to pay for acquisitions and restorations, and a lab on wheels you can drive around the country.

Best,

Ken

[silentfilm]

Reviving this "rasslin" thread, there's three early ones on eBay right now...
http://www.ebay.com/sch/zontar2000/m.ht ... m270.l1313

[Ken Viewer]

Reviving this "rasslin" thread, there's three early ones on eBay right now...
http://www.ebay.com/sch/zontar2000/m.ht ... m270.l1313

Bruce,

Thanks so much for the heads-up. The one guy I know who is a wrestling-films collector with the equipment to convert 16 MM film to DVD and do restoration and telecining, bid on all three and, alas, won none. Wish I'd coordinated better with him, because the 200-foot reel of film of Joe Stecher (and his brother, manager Tony -- who also wrestled), a former generally-recognized world's heavyweight wrestling champion circa 1920 and later, is among the rarest to find. (There's footage of one title match at Madison Square Garden that's badly damaged and thus hard to watch (restorable, but no one volunteering to put up the funds) on Youtube.

IIRC, the Stecher reel up for auction sold for $103.50 and I'd have thrown in some dollars to help the underbidder, as non-collecting cultural historian fascinated by the part "professional wrestling" played in the 20th century, when it was a staple of most newsreels companies' releases, week after week, year after year. But we didn't coordinate and such is life.

The only other Joe Stecher film I know of is/was in the late Sherman Grinberg's Paramount Pictures newsreels' collection that seems to have vanished from this Earth.

I do hope the winning bidder will make the footage available on Youtube or a similar service. Anyway, in an ususual token of appreciation for your efforts, here's a still-photo link to an International News Service (Hearst, which also owned a newsreels company) photo of two legends of the rasslin' racket whose stars burned bright at about the turn of the 20th century.

Shot in 1945, in this photo the guy on the left is one of the last of the great authentic wrestlers, though it's believed he played the pre-arranged-matches-game because you had to play to get paid; he was lightweight champion and successful challenger to many heavyweight wrestlers, later a noted referee, George Bothner, and he's really about 80-or-more years old in 1945.

The guy on the right is the legendary George Hackenschmidt, then age 67. The rasslin' was staged for photographers but this is the only time these two wrestled each other (does it matter the guys are ancient and the winner, or poses, were predetermined?). Film of both guys wrestling (not each other though) still exists, misplaced in locations we've tracked down but not convinced to work on. (Please delete this photo and/or post if it's too far off-topic).



Image is at, and courtesy of Mearsonlineauctions dot com, and smaller versions are on Flickr.

Thanks, again.

Ken

[Ken Viewer]

Darren,

Is it soup yet?

You're sitting on a classic clip, featuring the rarest of footage of famous managers, con-men, promoters, gamblers, swindlers, the guy who co-owned Madison Square Garden, the referee George Bothner, pictured both above and 44 years earlier in one of your stills, two of the genuinely greatest wrestlers ever (in both genuine and staged matches) at the very end of their primes, and you have it. I don't know anyone, any longer, who is willing to touch silver nitrate film except for some of the folks here. (In the old days, I could take such film to the late Richard Schwarz at the Thalia Theatre in Manhattan, who had a fireproof blockhouse wherein he did transfers of silver nitrate to safety film, and today likely would be making such transfers to DVDs.) It'd be grand to see the film either on Youtube or DVD, or some of us would pay a small fee for such a disc.

As the man who found the footage and converted it, your name would become associated with it. I have named discoveries for their finders, and the names stuck, so I promise a conversion of the film will be labeled, for those who follow the film-footage archive listing of wrestling hippodromes I've created, as the "Darren Nemeth historic discovery," if you put the footage on Youtube, or not, as you wish.

Ken