Criterion Has Apparently Struck Deal with Chaplin Estate

[Rob Farr]

From their February newsletter:

And you can expect a lot more in 2010, when you’ll become better acquainted with a slew of mythic moviemakers (Charlie Chaplin, Nicholas Ray, Sidney Lumet) and modern-day masters in the making (Pedro Costa, Andrea Arnold, Terry Zwigoff).

Happy viewing!

[Mike Gebert]

"The French are the masters of the compliment that crushes. They say to me, you are one of the three great masters of cinema. 'There is Griffith,' they say, and I nod modestly. 'There is Welles,' and I smile a little, they are too kind. And then they administer the coup de grace-- 'And there is Nicholas Ray!'" —Orson Welles

[Danny Burk]

At least they didn't say Jerry Lewis.

[Gagman 66]

If there just going to put out the exact same MK-2 editions as is all over again what is the point? The Chaplin Heir's have to understand that they goofed on the Warner DVD's in so many areas. They also need to concede that we need a complete as possible and thoughtfully restored version of the original 1925 cut of THE GOLD RUSH on DVD, with Orchestral score. I know lots of people that consider the '42 sound re-issue as practically un-watchable. THE GOLD RUSH has never been done proper justice on DVD. Especially, compared with Keaton's THE GENERAL, or Lloyd's THE FRESHMAN. If I were the Chaplin Estate I would be embarrassed half to death.

What about the re-orchestration of Chaplin's CITY LIGHTS score by Carl Davis? Included as an alternate track by Image, but snuffed out of the Warner release? THE KID is also far stronger with the missing footage David Shepard restored. Any chance of a recording of the 1928 score to THE CIRCUS? Jillian Anderson has toured with orchestra's that have played the score to the film live.

What really irks me is MK-2 even cut THE CHAPLIN REVIEW, some of the funniest stuff is missing from A DOG'S LIFE, and SHOULDER ARMS. Now I know it used to be there, because I still have the Playhouse VHS release from the 1980's.

[Mike Gebert]

They also need to concede that we need a complete as possible and thoughtfully restored version of the original 1925 cut of THE GOLD RUSH on DVD, with Orchestral score.

What do you have against the Brownlow-Davis one on disc 2 of the MK2 release?

[Gagman 66]

Huh? I'm not following here? There was no Carl Davis score on that Warner release, but there might have been. Davis has preformed a score He prepared for THE GOLD RUSH live based partly on the '42 re-issue, and partly on the cue-sheets of the original 1925 New York Premier, as discovered in Chaplin's vault in 1991. Sadly that got the blind ear from The Chaplin Estate. Instead The Heir's went with a Neil Brand piano score that was nowhere near as good as William Perry's work had been for Killiam Shows and Blackhawk. Not even close. I'd love to hear Perry's score re-mastered, but backed up by a Small orchestra. I consider it one of the better scores ever. Timothy Brock recently wrote a new score of his own for THE GOLD RUSH though I have not heard it.

[Mike Gebert]

You said we need a thoughtfully restored version of The Gold Rush '25, which suggests you think Brownlow's is not that. No?

[Gagman 66]

No knock on Kevin, this might be the best that can be done picture wise with the surviving materials, I can't say. But scoring wise, I'm certain that He was far from satisfied with having to settle for Neil Brand's fake piano. He would have much rather seen it given the full treatment. As I understand it the Chaplin Heir's were the ones who dictated the score. Brownlow had nothing to do with it.

When this first came out there were long discussions about it on the Harold Lloyd forum and many other places. No one was happy with the decision. Everyone considered the way the original cut of THE GOLD RUSH was treated (basically as an after thought) a huge disappointment.

[WaverBoy]

Besides the two documentaries, the only good thing about the otherwise thoroughly botched Warner/MK2 releases (shortened reissue versions of many of the films, ghosting due to defective PAL-to-NTSC conversions, wrong sound pitch due to PAL speedup, way too digitally overscrubbed, largely irrelevant featurette extras, absolutely godawful packaging) was the inclusion of the real THE GOLD RUSH, nicely restored by Brownlow & Gill, as (ironically) an extra. And I was just fine with Neil Brand's score, though I'd of course love to hear an orchestral score for it as well. THE GOLD RUSH was the only one I bought, solely for the real article; luckily I had the far superior Image versions of all the others, which were all lovingly restored by David Shepard. Complete, full aperture, nice greyscales, loads of detail, and cover art based on the original posters. David even tipped the fans off when they were about to go out-of-print, which was awfully swell of him.

I'm wondering if the Estate finally caved and will allow the complete versions of all the films to be released this time, before Chaplin took the scissors to them for subsequent reissues. And, I'm also wondering, if they'll allow the existing original versions of the First National shorts to be included as "extras", along with the reconstituted-from-outtakes versions which are now considered "official".

[radiotelefonia]

What's the point to purchase a Criterion DVD of Chaplin films?

The films will not have the original credits. (Could somebody post at least here, reconstructions featuring the First National logos?)

I hate to see films like MODERN TIMES or THE GREAT DICTATORS with the credits altered in order to fully remove references to United Artists.

THE KID has to be shown in its original 1921 form. The 1971 reissue deserves only to be treated nothing more than an extra.

In any case, Criterion should begin to offer film subtitles in other languages than English. I get tired getting subtitles for most of their editions (which exist and are available, even if they don't include them or if we have to create them ourselves).

When Salvador Samaritano used to air on TV those same films that this company later published he accomplished far more with his worn 16mm prints than whatever they keep publishing on DVD or Blu-Ray.

[Harlett O'Dowd]

we need a complete as possible and thoughtfully restored version of the original 1925 cut of THE GOLD RUSH on DVD, with Orchestral score.

Need?

[Murnau]

Am I the only one who seems to be quite satisfied with those old mk2/Warner releases? The Gold Rush was a little disappointing, but lucky enough there was the original version too.

I would like to see The Kid’s original 1921 version but only as an extra. For me the only one is 1971 re-editing. The story is much tighter and the main action is between the Tramp and the Boy. Just a piece of fun and sentiment, I’m happy enough for that.

[radiotelefonia]

Am I the only one who seems to be quite satisfied with those old mk2/Warner releases? The Gold Rush was a little disappointing, but lucky enough there was the original version too.

I would like to see The Kid’s original 1921 version but only as an extra. For me the only one is 1971 re-editing. The story is much tighter and the main action is between the Tramp and the Boy. Just a piece of fun and sentiment, I’m happy enough for that.

Wrong, totally wrong.

The extra must be the 1971 reissue. The story is not tight at all and it diminishes its accomplishments. Seeing this version, with scenes cut, the film looses all of its original impact.

If you want to cut a film, start with others that really need it like many of today's productions. You can start with DANCES WITH WOLVES, for instance, where you can already dispose of an hour.

[Derwiddian]

What about those Keystone restorations that BFI has been working on for years? They hinted at Spring 2009. Didn't happen. Maybe 2010? Could this be it?

[Rob Farr]

No, there will be a release of the BFI Chaplin Keystone restorations later this year, but they will reportedly come from Lobster Films and Flicker Alley.

[azjazzman]

Am I the only one who seems to be quite satisfied with those old mk2/Warner releases?

No, you're not.

[WaverBoy]

Am I the only one who seems to be quite satisfied with those old mk2/Warner releases?

No, you're not.

You guys really are satisfied with cut, cropped, ghosted, digitally overscrubbed, badly converted, badly packaged versions of Chaplin's films? Have you seen the Image DVDs?

[T0m M]

Personally, the only justification I can see for new Chaplin releases would be Blu-Ray. Charlie is the one silent performer with big enough public recognition to generate a good profit and Blu-Ray is the format that will attract the general public. The potential profits of a Blu-Ray release would be enough to allow Criterion to do a proper job with these films.

[Unclehulot]

Any chance of a recording of the 1928 score to THE CIRCUS? Jillian Anderson has toured with orchestra's that have played the score to the film live.

Yes, it would be interesting to have this version, but....having made a trip to D.C. to see Anderson perform this score a few years ago, I must say I didn't find it very interesting. I remember groaning at the use of "Vesti la Giubba" at the opening, signaling that this was going to be a compilation-type score, and it turned out to be a not particularly scene-specific one, IMHO. You can read more about it here:

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/93/9317/circus.html

Certainly it's great that Anderson did this research, and that we can hear what some audiences heard in 1928, but I think the worth of this score was somewhat over-hyped, and misunderstood, by some of the media coverage (I remember several articles that implied that Chaplin composed the music for this score) at the time of Anderson's discovery and subsequent performances.

[moviepas]

I have the Warner NTSC release I imported and noted my friend's column DVDSavant was unhappy with the PAL-NTSC conversions. I did not get the Image versions because I had the CBS-Fox Laserdiscs and with sme much out there and higher prices then and the high dollar at this end I demurred until it was too late.

I noted the Coogan feature added had no soundtrack and a difference in The Kid to the laserdisc, it was shorter. The Laserdisc has footage not in the 16mm I had or still have buried somewhere 16mm version with an interesting score and a French title: Charlot in etc. It was a poor copy and left out the extra footage on the boy's mother etc.

I would buy the Criterion in Blu Ray if it happens. The PAL issued in Australia seem to have disappeared and the Public Libraries don't seem to be around now, probably damaged and unplayable.

[azjazzman]

Am I the only one who seems to be quite satisfied with those old mk2/Warner releases?

No, you're not.

You guys really are satisfied with cut, cropped, ghosted, digitally overscrubbed, badly converted, badly packaged versions of Chaplin's films? Have you seen the Image DVDs?

I own the Image DVDs as well. Your rant about the MK2 Chaplin DVDs is overblown, exaggerated, and not really all that accurate.

[WaverBoy]

No, you're not.

You guys really are satisfied with cut, cropped, ghosted, digitally overscrubbed, badly converted, badly packaged versions of Chaplin's films? Have you seen the Image DVDs?

I own the Image DVDs as well. Your rant about the MK2 Chaplin DVDs is overblown, exaggerated, and not really all that accurate.

It's absolutely accurate. Exhibit A: The silents are not transferred full aperture like the Image versions were, they've been so digitally scrubbed with DVNR as to lose some of the detail, the sound pitch is wrong due to PAL speedup, the PAL-to-NTSC transfers used were faulty and caused visible ghosting (worse on some titles than others), and many of the films are the cut reissue versions. These are indisputable facts. I guess the packaging is relative, but I personally hated it.

Among innumerable others, archivist Robert H. Harris is also of the opinion that the Warner/MK2 releases are a complete botch, and he also seems to have a bit of inside info as to why; from a post he made at the Home Theater Forum on the subject a few years ago:

The Image Entertainment lasers are, overall, a far superior presentation of the films.

Unfortunately, ego came into play here, with the creators of the new DVDs taking a position of "but you do not like our work?"

Hence the PAL speedup.

A total and undeniable mess, which still needs to be remedied. Hopefully, we'll see qualilty 24fps transfers when high definition arrives.

RAH

[Murnau]

I'm sorry guys, I haven't had a chance to see those much-praised Image DVD's. Where I live I have to be satisfied if I even get a chance to buy any silent DVDs. This is so frustrating when from time to time there are all-new and better releases,too.

And please radiotelefonia, don't tell me what I like and what I should like. You can think that The Kid's better cut is original, for me it is not.

[moglia]

Am I the only one who seems to be quite satisfied with those old mk2/Warner releases? .

Am I the only one who seems to be quite satisfied with those old mk2/Warner releases?

No, you're not.

Am I the only one who seems to be quite satisfied with those old mk2/Warner releases?

No, you're not.

You guys really are satisfied with cut, cropped, ghosted, digitally overscrubbed, badly converted, badly packaged versions of Chaplin's films? Have you seen the Image DVDs?

Those who like the mk2/Warner releases must also love the smell of hot horseshi*, 'cause they stink every bit as much. Really amazing what tripe people will defend. However waverboy said it far more intelligently than I:

It's absolutely accurate. Exhibit A: The silents are not transferred full aperture like the Image versions were, they've been so digitally scrubbed with DVNR as to lose some of the detail, the sound pitch is wrong due to PAL speedup, the PAL-to-NTSC transfers used were faulty and caused visible ghosting (worse on some titles than others), and many of the films are the cut reissue versions. These are indisputable facts. I guess the packaging is relative, but I personally hated it.

Among innumerable others, archivist Robert H. Harris is also of the opinion that the Warner/MK2 releases are a complete botch, and he also seems to have a bit of inside info as to why; from a post he made at the Home Theater Forum on the subject a few years ago:

The Image Entertainment lasers are, overall, a far superior presentation of the films.

Unfortunately, ego came into play here, with the creators of the new DVDs taking a position of "but you do not like our work?"

Hence the PAL speedup.

A total and undeniable mess, which still needs to be remedied. Hopefully, we'll see qualilty 24fps transfers when high definition arrives.

RAH

[Gagman 66]

The Image Entertainment Chaplin DVD's were released in I believe 1999 or 2000, and were only in print long enough to brew a pot of tea. But I was able to get all of them with the one exception of A WOMAN OF PARIS.

[Danny Burk]

The Image Entertainment Chaplin DVD's were released in I believe 1999 or 2000, and were only in print long enough to brew a pot of tea. But I was able to get all of them with the one exception of A WOMAN OF PARIS.

The latter is worth picking up, and you can't really go wrong with a brand new copy at $3.46, which I see listed by an Amazon reseller...

[Penfold]

It seems that a chunk of the problems perceived on here are as a result of the NTSC conversion....not a problem we have over here of course....

[Doug Sulpy]

radiotelefonia,

The Image DVD has the original United Artists credit for "Modern Times" (at least), they've just superimposed additional data underneath it.

I agree with everything waverboy said about the mk2 discs. Just about everything that could be screwed up on those discs is. The only ones I have any use for are "The Gold Rush" (for obvious reasons), and "The Great Dictator," which I think looks better than the Image DVD, and has some terrific extras. That was the first one to come out, though - after that, it was all downhill... fast.

Unfortunately, that sub-standard series was the one approved by the Chaplin Estate. This leaves me with a feeling of almost sure dread that the NEXT batch of Chaplin releases - ALSO approved by the Chaplin estate, is likely to repeat all of the mistakes on the mk2 discs, and maybe add some new ones.

It's encouraging that Criterion is involved - but, in the end, they can only work with what they're given.

[Kevin2]

For me the only reason to see the MK2 editions of the films is to see how Chaplin re-edited the films for reissue. In all cases, I don't understand why he thought he had to remove what he did.

Of course the MK2 editions do include all of these edits as supplements, but as with many of you, I think the Image laserdiscs and/or initial DVD issues are superior.

Not sure what this means for the possible Criterion editions but Park Circus is releasing two of Chaplin's films on Blu-ray in the UK on May 10th; The Kid and The Great Dictator. They don't list features and appear to be region locked. The bad news is that the "library" notation says MK2 and the running time of The Kid is listed as 60-minutes.

[azjazzman]

For me the only reason to see the MK2 editions of the films is to see how Chaplin re-edited the films for reissue. In all cases, I don't understand why he thought he had to remove what he did.

Of course the MK2 editions do include all of these edits as supplements, but as with many of you, I think the Image laserdiscs and/or initial DVD issues are superior.

Not sure what this means for the possible Criterion editions but Park Circus is releasing two of Chaplin's films on Blu-ray in the UK on May 10th; The Kid and The Great Dictator. They don't list features and appear to be region locked. The bad news is that the "library" notation says MK2 and the running time of The Kid is listed as 60-minutes.

My understanding was that Kinowelt in Germany had announced they were releasing 5 of the Chaplin features on Blu-Ray.