1920's 1930's 35mm films uncovered

[Jcal]

Hi Guys,

My family recently uncovered some old 35mm films my granfather had. There are about 20 different films I believe from the 1920's-1930's era. Most of them are not labeled but some are. The label bares the name "Movie Toy Film to reel" in print and then some have hadwritten names such as Mary Pickford, Rin Tin Tin and Jack Dempsey on them. My mother told me these were movies her father use to show to the family on his hand crank project when she was a little girl (in the 1930's) In trying to find out anything about these films found I have been overwhelmed with information on Nitrate film. This is my first experience with possibly nitrate film and I'm feeling that what I thought was a great find could be a nightmare to have in my possesion. I would appreciate if anyone could give insight on handling and storing these films along with any information on the "Movie Toy Film to reel" name on the labels.

[DShepFilm]

Your films might be nitrate but they might not. Nitrate was the usual commercial base until 1951 but safety film was introduced in 1912 and was used for films to be shown on projectors without enclosing booths in homes, schools and churches. Look in the clear edge of the film outside of the sprocket holes; almost all the time the film is labelled either "Nitrate Film" or "Safety Film" about once a foot.

Most of the hand crank projectors used in homes were sold as toys. A man for whom I once worked, Kent Eastin, got his first (Keystone) projector as a premium for selling a lot of "bluing," some sort of laundry product; he was put on to it by an ad in a comic book. When he was in high school in the mid-1920s, he used to go to film exchanges in Chicago and buy old 1000' reels of 35mm (almost certainly nitrate film) for $1 each and then sell 100' lengths of it mounted on reels for Keystone toy projectors at $1 each -- his start of a lifetime in the film business. The light on these machines is dim enough not to bring the film anywhere near its flash point.

Nitrate film is chemically unstable and is highly flammable but it can be handled and used without danger, especially in such short lengths and with the closed-side reels used on toy projectors, as long as obvious safety precautions are observed.

David Shepard

[Jcal]

DShepFilm,

That would make sense. The smaller reels with labels do have 100 ft. printed on them. Being a "toy" I would imagine it was not that expensive. That would alos explain the "Movie Toy Film" label.

Thanks of the information. Do you know where I might be able to find out more on film cut for these toys?

[Christopher Jacobs]

As David mentioned, you can easily learn if it's nitrate by looking to see if it says NITRATE along the edge by the sprocket holes. If it says SAFETY FILM, it will be the non-flammable acetate based film, even if it also says NITRATE somewhere on the same print, as that would be from the nitrate negative printing through to a safety print.

Nitrate film that is still in good condition (clearly visible picture and flexible film that's not too brittle) is perfectly safe to store if you keep it away from heat and any sort of open flame or source of sparks. (The same precautions apply to storing old newspapers, magazines, books, cans of gasoline, motor oil, many household chemicals, etc.) It should also not be sealed up so that the gases it naturally emits while decomposing will more readily attack the film. Keep it exposed to air circulation even if it's inside some sort of protective container (i.e., a film can should not be tightly sealed, but allow some air circulation). The cooler it's stored, the better, and it might actually last longer than acetate film. If the nitrate is just starting to decompose it should still be okay for awhile (it will show random-pattern discolorations across parts of the film instead of the usual straight black & white or some sort of solid color tint). If the picture is starting to disappear already and the film is sticky, then it is becoming more volatile and is more of a fire hazard. It may or may not still be salvageable in that condition. Once it's congealed into a solid block, it's pretty much usless except for peeling away a few outer frames. Eventually it will turn into a goo and finally dust if it doesn't catch fire.

As David also noted, nitrate films found with toy projectors tend to have been clipped out of discarded theatrical films after their runs. This means that many clips may well be the only surviving material from the original films that have otherwise disappeared. Clips with famous stars, especially if printed onto safety stock to be sold with the toy projectors, are not likely to be too rare, but may well be in better condition than other surviving material of the same films.

Let us know what all you have if you get the chance! If you can find title cards and actor closeups that you can scan and post, people on this discussion board may be able to identify them.

--Christopher Jacobs
http://www.und.edu/instruct/cjacobs
http://hpr1.com/film

[Jack Theakston]

Just an expansion upon the above: clear letters on black background are negative print-through. The information pertaining to the stock you are holding is solid black on clear.

[Jcal]

Christopher - Jack

Thanks for the added information. I hope to scan some clips this weekend and post them for feedback.

[DEVIS]

Hello my name is denis i have 19 years and I am Italian and passionate about 35mm. I take care to preserve and store film at Cinematheque in Friuli. I would sell the film in 35mm that you are getting? All I'll buy them for $ 200. ok? for answer write to my personal email: [email protected]" target="_blank" thanks.

[Gagman 66]

These could potentially be some big finds. Any Colleen Moore or Clara Bow in there? Or maybe Corinne Griffith? Good luck getting things sorted out. hope as much of it as possible can be saved.

[DEVIS]

because jcal NOT RESPOND TO THE MESSAGE?

[pookybear]

or jcal is just trying to find a way to get some good frame shots of the films. I am sure the group would love to see
them and most likely be able to help in identification.

Pookybear

[silentfilm]

Did you guys not notice that the original message was from March 2010?