just inherited 40 16mm films-help

[flyingt]

I just got 4 bins full of 16mm films , along with a bell and howell projector and speaker. The first thing I noticed is the smell. I have done the research and I know the vinegar smell is not good. I have a theater in my basement and I want to keep all that I can so I can show "real" movies down there for friends. Any advise for a new guy what to do to preserve what I have and keep these historical films alive?
BTW some of the movies are 1950's era movies some are 1970's. I was told there is a movie shown to soldiers before being shipped out during WWII.

[Marr&Colton]

If the films smell like vinegar, that is not good, although they still may run.
Usually vinegar syndrome is accompanied by shrinkage, so an unsteady image on the screen is another symptom.

You should probably make a list of the titles of the films, to see if there is anything of value.

I assume you show digital projection in your home theatre right now.

I am a former 16mm and 35mm collector and now that we have blu-ray dvds of classic movies, the picture is vastly superior to 16mm. Even very good regular dvd transfers are better than most 16mm prints, so I wonder why you think running "real" film is an improvement.

In the years past, film was better than video, but technology has improved so well, there is no comparison.

Some other advantages of digital:
1. Far, far less cost than film
2. No vinegar syndrome
3. Easier storage
4. No noisy projectors
5. Always sharp focus
6. Rare or Hot titles all the same low cost

[silentfilm]

There are other reasons for film to smell, but vinegar syndrome is the usual cause. If the film is warped and won't lay flat then it is most likely vinegar syndrome. If the film is really warped, there is nothing much that you can do but throw it away. If it slightly smells of vinegar and it is not warped, you can probably air it out and it may still be good for a few years.

You didn't say where you are located, but you may be able to find a film collector who lives near you who could help you inspect the films and your projector. I would recommend the forum http://www.16mmfilmtalk.com , where you will find lots of helpful collectors.

[pookybear]

Welcome to the group flyingt,

yes VS is a problem. I have used Vitafilm on a print suffering from this
base rot. I have had good results. The maker calls it a cure, but I would
just say helps to slow down the pace of the base rot. And like what
has been said before air the film out. You want to get the vinegar
smell to the lowest levels possible. It is the acid that attacks the film base
furthering the process. Also if you have any films that do not smell
keep those seperate from the ones that stink.

As for your projector, clean and check the film path for any dirt, grease,
or rough spots. A clean projector does wonders for film life.

As for the new batch of DVD, yes they are great, but missing some of
the magic of running something through the projector. This falls under
the same thoughts of why would someone own a phonograph over an
ipop nano.

Pookybear

[Michael O'Regan]

..... so I wonder why you think running "real" film is an improvement.

I don't think the OP mentioned real film as being an "improvement".

Film has an organic quality which is missing from the image information contained on the plastic discs.
My opinion is that the images produced by DVD and/or Blueray are inferior and look totally artificial.
I accept them only as second best because I can't always afford prints of the titles I like.

[bobfells]

I can relate to Flyingt. I started collecting while in high school in 8mm (Blackhawk Films, of course), then switched to 16mm in college. The expenses of raising a family took precedence in later but about ten years, having become an empty-nester, I resumed my 16mm collecting through ebay and I got some beautifil prints at real bargains. Picked up several 16mm projectors but realized that the bulbs, while still available, are no longer being manufactured. I acquired one Kodak with a halogen bulb and I think (or rather hope) that this typr of bulb will continue to be made. In any event I stocked up on several but doing the math of 5 bulbs times 75 features and....

I have also used Vitafilm and can report good results. My son-in-law set up his own home theater with a digital projector so I've had the opportunity to run some of my dvds on his equipment and I hate to agree wit a previous commenter but they looked as good, and perhaps even better, than my 16mms. Still, collecting 16mm is a lot like model railroading, you just have to love working with the material.

[Marr&Colton]

As a fan of old technologies, I always loved those big theatre size 35mm projectors, and after buying my own small town theatre, could show my collection on the big screen. Handling and running real film is a much more rewarding experience than sliding a plastic disc into a player.

On the other hand, there were so few really razor-sharp 16mm or 35mm film prints available--even in the 90s, that I sold out what I had. It was then--just as now--also difficult to acquire decent titles unless you spent big money--only to have vinegar syndrome eat up your investment later.

We haven't mentioned the other bane of real film collecting--faded color prints.

As for my own experience, I like the new technology--especially the huge selection of titles we only dreamed about when collecting film that are available in 2010 on dvd, as well as their presentation quality on a big screen.

[pookybear]

As a fan of old technologies, I always loved those big theatre size 35mm projectors.

On the other hand, there were so few really razor-sharp 16mm or 35mm film prints available--even in the 90s, that I sold out what I had. It was then--just as now--also difficult to acquire decent titles unless you spent big money--only to have vinegar syndrome eat up your investment later.

We haven't mentioned the other bane of real film collecting--faded color prints.

Yes sadly I have to agree witht the above statement somewhat. Most of
the prints that collectors come across are well removed from the original
prints that were released to theaters. Each step of the way quility goes down. Not much can be done about that. However, many of the new DVD
have been digitally scrubbed to such a point that many of the original
elements are lost. That can change the whole mood of the film in some
cases. There are of course many films on DVD that give a great viewing
pleasure.

As for the fading of color, not much beyond cold storage can help that
one out. Good storage habit for the film base as well. My refrigerator
has a bottle of ketchup, butter, some wheat bread and lots of film. ^_^

Oh and just a tech note here, a study was done by that went to find out
how deep of a digital scan can be done on a single frame of 35mm
film before the pixels start to copy the same information over again.

The project made it down to 100MB of information to a single frame.
My friend has a brand new comupter with a smooth 500GB memory or
just about 5.5 minutes worth of full footage at the maxium scan depth.

DVDs are just like MP3s they just hit the high points on the information
and your brain tricks you into thinking it is complete.

Pookybear

Now that this thread has been properly highjacked, how is the original
poster doing with his new collection? Are you starting to get the films
sorted out?

[Michael O'Regan]

Yes, I was wondering whether we could have a list of titles??

[BenModel]

Buy some camphor (indian grocery, Amazon) and put it in the cans of film with vinegar smell...

[Michael O'Regan]

Buy some camphor (indian grocery, Amazon) and put it in the cans of film with vinegar smell...

Well....yes, that will certainly get rid of the vinegar smell.....!!

[flyingt]

Hells Island
Attack of the Bee girls
Asphyx
several educational films
some military education films-pre WWII
Coots- 4 wheeling???
A lot of the movies are not marked so until I get the projector going or I spend some time unraveling the films till I get to the title I wont know the rest.

I will update some more but I forgot to bring the list with me to work.
The belt on my projector has really become loose and I am gonna order a new one. The bulb also blew but I found someone that has both parts in stock and readily available. The bulb is only 20 bucks. My HD projector in my theater has a bulb that costs $300.00 to replace so 20 bucks is a deal.

[Marr&Colton]

Yes, regular projector bulbs are around $20--but they are usually rated at around 20 hours use--so that is approximately $1 per hour cost for the lamp.

Most digital projector lamps have a 2000 hour rated life...at $300.00 that figures out to be 15 cents an hour! Plus they are much brighter than the average 1000 watt tungsten bulb.

[flyingt]

Yes, regular projector bulbs are around $20--but they are usually rated at around 20 hours use--so that is approximately $1 per hour cost for the lamp.

Most digital projector lamps have a 2000 hour rated life...at $300.00 that figures out to be 15 cents an hour! Plus they are much brighter than the average 1000 watt tungsten bulb.

Wow only 20 hours for a $20.00 bulb???!!!! Thats some crazy stuff there.

[Michael O'Regan]

Regular 250w halogen bulbs for a 16mm projector - rated at 50 or so hours.

[flyingt]

LOL I was just looking at some of them and it seems I have some adult films circa 1950's

[Marr&Colton]

I was figuring an old style projector lamp...yes, the halogen lamps are rated for 50 hours or so..I think I still have a B&H 1500 series projector stashed away in a closet somewhere that has one of those.

[flyingt]

legacy of blood
color me dead
sierra baron
upper hand- scope
mistress pamela
conquest of damascus
asphyx
how does your garden grow
squares
not now darling
margie-verne the failure-tv show from the 50's
the secret of telgian
hells island
2 untitled adult themed movie shorts
misc educational films
part 2 of operation amsterdam---may have part one mixed somewhere