What was "Goldwyn's fiasco?"

MikeH0714 · Post by **MikeH0714** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:10 pm

As an alternative to literally counting down the hours 'til Slapsticon, I've been re-reading some of the silent comedy books in my library, including one I've had since I was a teen: Theodore Huff's "Charlie Chaplin" (1951).

One of Huff's tendencies, which can be either charming or infuriating, is that he assumes we know our film history; facts and events are mentioned in passing with little backstory. One of these passages has intrigued me for years:

"In the big 1913-1914 change-over, actors and actresses, as we have seen, swarmed into the films from the stage. Most failed to adapt themselves to the new medium, but the migration continued until the failure of the Triangle Company and Goldwyn's fiasco in 1917."

Does anyone here know what this refers to? I know that the year before, Goldwyn (then Sam Goldfish) formed Goldwyn Pictures with the Selwyn brothers, who were Broadway producers, and that Goldwyn was forced out of the company before it became a piece of MGM. But I was not successful in finding out what exactly happened in 1917.

Michael

Rick Lanham · Post by **Rick Lanham** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:18 pm

A Google book search finds this page in a book about Irvin Shrewsbury Cobb, a writer/comedian of the time:

http://books.google.com/books?id=D2WISw ... 17&f=false

It says two important things, that the Selwyns didn't like Samuel changing his last name to that of the corporation. They didn't foresee that.

Also, their first film was a failure. It was made without subtitles. When it was submitted to theater owners, they were confused, and new subtitles were hastily inserted. The film also came out just as the United States was entering the war in Europe. Apparently this film's theme conflicted with that new direction. So the film was financially a failure.

There's nothing on the page specifically blaming Goldwyn, but I guess he was the guy running things day-to-day??

Rick

Jack Theakston · Post by **Jack Theakston** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:29 pm

Was that the fiasco? Or was it Goldwyn's attempted move back to New York?

radiotelefonia · Post by **radiotelefonia** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:34 pm

rogerskarsten · Post by **rogerskarsten** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:23 pm

I don't have an answer to what Goldwyn's Fiasco of 1917 entailed, but I thought this was interesting: of the eight films released by Goldwyn Pictures Corporation in 1917, seven of them return hits in the FIAF database.

BABY MINE - Cinémathèque Française (Paris)
THE CINDERELLA MAN - Instituto Valenciano de Cinematografia (Valencia)
FIGHTING ODDS - Museum of Modern Art (New York)
NEARLY MARRIED -Library of Congress (Washington)
POLLY OF THE CIRCUS -Library of Congress (Washington)
THE SPREADING DAWN -Library of Congress (Washington)
THAIS - George Eastman House (Rochester); Museum of Modern Art (New York); bfi/National Film and Television Archive (London)

The one MIA is SUNSHINE ALLEY.

So in terms of survival rates, 1917 turns out to have been rather a good year for Goldwyn.

~Roger

Brooksie · Post by **Brooksie** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:11 am

Some sources seem to incorrectly list the formation of Goldwyn Pictures as 1917 (from what I understand, it was late 1916).

As to whether that was a `fiasco' - I guess it was for Triangle. If there's supposed to be an implication that Goldwyn had something to do with the defection of Griffith et al, it's the first I've heard of it.

He did poach Mabel Normand from Triangle in 1917, but they can't have been very surprised. The writing would have already been on the wall by then.

dr.giraud · Post by **dr.giraud** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:13 am

I don't know what was Goldwyn's fiasco of 1917, but Goldwyn's fiasco of 1995 was called THE PEREZ FAMILY.

Chris Snowden · Post by **Chris Snowden** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:58 am

Goldwyn wanted everything to be first-class, so he overpaid for stars, directors, story rights, costumes, etc. His early films grossed reasonably well at the box office, but he'd spent too much money making them (Polly of the Circus especially), putting the company in a bad financial squeeze that resulted in his getting squeezed out the door.

The story is told in a number of places, but Richard Koszarski's Fort Lee: The Film Town uses contemporary news reports to tell it, and also provides negative costs and grosses for several dozen of the early Goldwyn releases. Surprise: the Mabel Normand films did lacklustre business, in spite of the Sennett-produced Mickey doing well in states-rights release at the time.