question on MGM early talkies

David Pierce · Post by **David Pierce** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:22 am

I 'm trying to work out a chronology on the transition to sound films at MGM.

"White Shadows in the South Seas" was their first film with a recorded soundtrack, and premiered in New York on July 31, 1928, and went into general release that November.

And a year later, in November 1929, MGM released their last film without dialogue, "The Kiss," with Garbo.

Can anyone help me confirm MGM first part-talkie feature, and their last part-talkie feature?

Thanks,

David Pierce

rudyfan · Post by **rudyfan** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:18 pm

According to the MGM Story, Alias Jimmy Valentine was shot silent, then talkie scenes were reshot and "The first MGM star to be thrown upon the microphone's dubious mercies was William Haines." I'll keep looking for the last partial talkie. Having a hard time reading, just had the eyes dilated.

Harold Aherne · Post by **Harold Aherne** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:31 pm

Alias Jimmy Valentine appears to have been the first part-talkie; it opened in New York on 15 Nov. 1928 and went into general release on 26 Jan. 1929.

The last part-talkie was The Mysterious Island (5 Oct. 1929). While the amount of dialogue is somewhat limited, it goes beyond merely background chatter as in Sunrise and actually helps advance the story, e.g. the scene in which Sonja's voice is heard on the submarine radio. The last part-talkie before that, I believe, was Wonder of Women (13 Jul. 1929). The last MGM film that was completely silent--not sent out with any track whatsoever--may have been The Desert Rider (11 May 1929), but I haven't confirmed it.

-Harold

Richard P. May · Post by **Richard P. May** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:05 pm

Based on a copy of the MGM release schedule for 1929 (a typewritten list that was in the MGM print department when I worked there) it is correct that DESERT RIDER was released May 11, 1929, but it shows CHINA BOUND (Dane & Arthur) released a week later, May 18.
Everything after that had at least a music track.
The list does not designate a part-talkie from all dialog.

Harold Aherne · Post by **Harold Aherne** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:15 pm

Richard P. May wrote:Based on a copy of the MGM release schedule for 1929 (a typewritten list that was in the MGM print department when I worked there) it is correct that DESERT RIDER was released May 11, 1929, but it shows CHINA BOUND (Dane & Arthur) released a week later, May 18. Everything after that had at least a music track.
The list does not designate a part-talkie from all dialog.

You're right--I had never looked up the status of the Dane/Arthur films.

The NYT reviews of The Bellamy Trial and The Bridge of San Luis Rey note that both films had talking sequences. They've been listed as incomplete on AMS; I wouldn't mind seeing both on TCM if enough survives of them to justify a screening.

-Harold

moviepas · Post by **moviepas** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:35 am

All I could find is Luis Rey exists only as a silent version at George Eastman House. Nothing to add about The Bellamy Trial.

Brooksie · Post by **Brooksie** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:23 am

A couple of MGM sound milestones (other than the obvious ones), according to `The MGM Story' and other sources:

- First sound-on-film production - Norma Shearer's `The Last of Mrs Cheyney' (6 July 1929 - their first all-talking non-musical had been her `The Trial of Mary Dugan')
- Last sound production not also issued in a silent version for unwired theatres - `Wise Girls' (21 Sept 1929 - noteworthy given that, for example - Marion Davies' first talkie `Marianne' was made in two quite different versions, one talking and one silent, and had been released only a month earlier)

`The Mysterious Island (5th October 1929) does seem to be the last part-talkie.

Apparently George Eastman House has a complete copy of the silent version of `The Bridge of San Luis Rey', but I've seen `The Bellamy Trial' on plenty of lost film lists (as always, happy to be proven wrong ... )

David Pierce · Post by **David Pierce** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:14 pm

Brooksie wrote:A couple of MGM sound milestones (other than the obvious ones), according to `The MGM Story' and other sources:

- Last sound production not also issued in a silent version for unwired theatres - `Wise Girls' (21 Sept 1929 - noteworthy given that, for example - Marion Davies' first talkie `Marianne' was made in two quite different versions, one talking and one silent, and had been released only a month earlier)
[/list]

I'm not so sure about 'Wise Girls' being the last. I believe a silent release version of Clarence Brown's 'Romance' with Garbo was preserved by MGM in the 1960s.

And thanks to everyone for the research.

David Pierce

Penfold · Post by **Penfold** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:30 pm

Wise Girls does seem early for it to be the last "Also available silent " MGM release, as "All Quiet on the Western Front" had a silent version available a full 12 months later, and 'City Girl' in Feb 1930...

David Pierce · Post by **David Pierce** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:12 pm

Penfold wrote:Wise Girls does seem early for it to be the last "Also available silent " MGM release, as "All Quiet on the Western Front" had a silent version available a full 12 months later, and 'City Girl' in Feb 1930...

... and 'Dracula' in 1931.

Michael O'Regan · Post by **Michael O'Regan** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:41 pm

David Pierce wrote:
Penfold wrote:Wise Girls does seem early for it to be the last "Also available silent " MGM release, as "All Quiet on the Western Front" had a silent version available a full 12 months later, and 'City Girl' in Feb 1930...
... and 'Dracula' in 1931.

This was Universal, though.

Jack Theakston · Post by **Jack Theakston** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:45 pm

So was ALL QUIET, though, and CITY GIRL was a Fox film.

Did Harrison's Reports mention whether silent versions were available?

CoffeeDan · Post by **CoffeeDan** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:17 pm

All the major studios continued to release silent versions of sound pictures for their yet-unwired theatres until October of 1931, when the cessation of the practice was heralded by a front-page story in Variety ("END OF SILENT FILMS").

I believe that a silent version of the Norma Shearer film STRANGERS MAY KISS (1931) still exists. Maybe Dick May could verify . . .

Brooksie · Post by **Brooksie** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:45 pm

David Pierce wrote:I'm not so sure about 'Wise Girls' being the last. I believe a silent release version of Clarence Brown's 'Romance' with Garbo was preserved by MGM in the 1960s.

The source gave it as the last movie where a silent and sound version were shot - silent versions thenceforth being films conceived for sound with intertitles added to make them suitable for silent showings. I've found it difficult to find further info on this film to confirm one way or another.

It's interesting that rather than keeping Garbo's voice off the screen for as long as possible, they continued putting out silent releases of her films alongside sound. The romantic in me wonders if there was some genuine demand for Garbo without the mystery of her silence spoilt.

Harold Aherne · Post by **Harold Aherne** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:30 pm

Brooksie wrote: The source gave it as the last movie where a silent and sound version were shot - silent versions thenceforth being films conceived for sound with intertitles added to make them suitable for silent showings. I've found it difficult to find further info on this film to confirm one way or another.

If the book you talked about earlier is John Douglas Eames' The MGM Story, here's his exact quote about Wise Girls:

Final capitulation of the silents to the talkies was signalled by Wise Girls, released in September 1929. It was MGM's first movie with no silent version available for unwired theatres.

Eams says nothing about both a silent and sound version for Wise Girls, though admittedly his first sentence is misleading. And the fact that no silent version was made available for *this particular* title (which may or may not be true--further research is needed) does not imply that later MGM releases weren't given alternate silent versions.

-Harold

Richard P. May · Post by **Richard P. May** » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:37 am

To Coffee Dan,
Sorry, I haven't had access to the MGM inventory for close to 5 years, and lacking photographic memory, can't verify existence of particular films.

CoffeeDan · Post by **CoffeeDan** » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:42 am

Richard P. May wrote:To Coffee Dan,
Sorry, I haven't had access to the MGM inventory for close to 5 years, and lacking photographic memory, can't verify existence of particular films.

Oh, well . . . but anyway, thanks for your reply.

question on MGM early talkies

question on MGM early talkies

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