Silent comedy in historical setting (question)

Spiny Norman · Post by **Spiny Norman** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:30 am

There's a question I'd like to ask:

Currently I am in a research project on how history is treated in the movies. More specifically, I am looking at comedies about ancient history. Films like "A funny thing happened on the way to the forum" and others.

After the 1940s the list is clear and there are reviews and everything is available on dvd etcetera.
But for the silent era it's more difficult to find reliable information. Two of them are Buster Keaton movies and these are available on DVD; for the rest I have only the names.

If anyone can give me more titles, or more information on these silent movies, please let me know. Thanks.

So far I found:
* The Cook (1918) (for the salami asp sequence) (released on DVD)
* Cleopatsy (France, 1918)
* The three ages (1923) (released on DVD)
* Antony and Cleopatra (1924)
* Nabdaile Cleopatrei (Rumania, 1925)
* Roamin' gladiator (1927)
* Roamin' Romeo (1928) (survives)
* Cleo to Cleopatra (1928)
* Oh! Oh! Cleopatra (1931)

Post by **silentfilm** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:49 am

Don't forget His Prehistoric Past (1914, Sennett) with Charley Chaplin
Flying Elephants (1927, Hal Roach) Laurel & Hardy

Both of these survive. Flying Elephants is on out-of-print Lost Films of Laurel & Hardy, Volume 6. It has also been released in Europe in a Laurel & Hardy box set, and it will probably be on the Laurel & Hardy silent box set coming out later this year.

Spiny Norman · Post by **Spiny Norman** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:29 am

Thanks! Although at the moment, I am only looking into "classical" comedies - the laughing side of epics like Cleopatra or Ben Hur.

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:50 am

You mean classical as opposed to cave-man?

I just saw a copy of DOUBLING FOR ROMEO, starring Will Rogers, and it has an extended (and rather high-budget) dream sequence where he parodies Romeo and Juliet, if that's going back far enough. We're preparing it for a showing at the Buster Keaton Celebration.

josemas · Post by **josemas** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:38 am

Spiny Norman wrote:
If anyone can give me more titles, or more information on these silent movies, please let me know. Thanks.

So far I found:

* Cleopatsy (France, 1918)

I belive that this is actually an American film produced by the Rolin Film Co. (Hal Roach) and distributed by Pathe. It was released June 23, 1918.

Here some additional info on it:

CLEOPATSY 2 rls D:Hal Roach? PH:Robb Doran C:Toto, Clarine Seymour, Dora Rogers, Bud Jamison, Marie Mosquini, Lige Cromley, Fred Newmeyer, Dee Lampton ©6-8-1918 LU12503 [ # T-8 March 4, 14-30 & April 4, 1918.] Syn: Mark Handy (Toto) of Rome goes to Alexandria to try to tame the unruly Cleopatsy, who hasn’t been paying her tribute.

T-8 is the production number and is followed by dates of production.
I've seen a still or two from this film and it is a fairly elaborate production compared to other Rolin films of that day.
Unforunately, to the best of my knowledge, it is a lost film.

The Toto (Arnold Novello) series was a costly and almost disasterous series for the still young Rolin Film Co.

Supporting actor Lige Cromley later changed his name to Lige Conley and had his own starring series in Jack White's Mermaid Comedies that were distributed by Educational in the 1920s.

Joe Moore

Spiny Norman · Post by **Spiny Norman** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:59 am

Oh, I read in an article on Cleopatra films that "Cleopatsy" was a Pathé production. Maybe the writer was wrong. Well, if it doesn't survive, there's no point in arguing.
"Oh! Oh! Cleopatra (1931)" survives apparently (but that doesn't mean I can get a copy of it).

josemas · Post by **josemas** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:22 am

Spiny Norman wrote:
If anyone can give me more titles, or more information on these silent movies, please let me know. Thanks.

* Roamin' Romeo (1928) (survives)

This is a Lupino Lane comedy distributed by Educational. It was released July 29, 1928. Here's some additional details.

ROAMING ROMEO 2 rls (Lupino Lane Comedies) PD-CO:Lupino Lane Comedy Corp. PD:Jack White D:Henry W. George C:Lupino Lane, Wallace Lupino, Stanley Blystone, Anita Garvin ©7-16-1928 LP25464 (aka BENDING HUR) Syn: Nip and Wallace are 2 escaped galley slaves in ancient Roman times who adopt a variety of disguises in order to evade capture.

As you mentioned the film is extant. I've seen this one a few times and there are lots of fun acrobatics by the brothers Lupino in it. IIRC, Videobrary used to have it available on VHS.

Joe Moore

josemas · Post by **josemas** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:30 am

Spiny Norman wrote:Oh, I read in an article on Cleopatra films that "Cleopatsy" was a Pathé production. Maybe the writer was wrong. Well, if it doesn't survive, there's no point in arguing.

It wasn't unusual for films to often get listed by their distributor and omit any mention of an independent producer especially if it was a smaller company like Rolin.
So it's easy to see where someone could have seen a list of Pathé releases and mistaken it for a Pathé production too.
Easy enough for someone to confuse American Pathé with the original French company too.
Thus by a couple of simple mistakes CLEOPATSY becomes a French film.

Joe Moore

Spiny Norman · Post by **Spiny Norman** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:17 am

Yes, Roaming Romeo was the only one I have actually tracked down. I will get a copy from someone.

I found another one: Cleopatra and Her Easy Mark (1923)

Spiny Norman · Post by **Spiny Norman** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:40 pm

At the risk of repeating myself, I am still looking for any information that might be useful about these silent, or early, comedies:

Unfortunately silentera.com can only get me so far. It is a helpful site, especially with the literature listing, but it doesn't even include all the silent films that I found, and sometimes it just can't confirm wether a film exists anymore or not.

Lysistrata, ou la grève des baisiers (Fr. 1910)
Cleopatsy (VS 1918)
Antony and Cleopatra (VS 1924)
Nabdaile Cleopatrei (Rumenia 1925)
Nero (VS 1925)
Roamin’ gladiator (VS 1927)
The private life of Helen of Troy (GB 1927)
Cleo to Cleopatra (VS 1928)
Oh! Oh! Cleopatra (VS 1931)
The warrior’s husband (VS 1933)
Les dieux s’amusent (Fr. 1935)

Of course, I know that inevitably some of these are lost. One or two exist partially as nitrate prints that can't be viewed. For some I found only the scripts. But some must still be out there.
It never hurts to ask! If you know of a print or a copy, let me know. Even if I can't see it, I could note down its existance. Thanks!

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:24 am

Do you already have the Eddie Cantor vehicle Roman Scandals (1933) on your list? Fits your "classical comedy" category exactly.

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:41 am

Helen wrote:Do you already have the Eddie Cantor vehicle Roman Scandals (1933) on your list? Fits your "classical comedy" category exactly.

There are a number of things by George Melies that could be considered parodies of the classics. Le Tonerre de Jupiter (Jupiter's Thunderballs) comes to mind because of the classical mythology setting, but he did a lot with Egyptian mummies, medieval wizards, oriental potentates, and the like.

Spiny Norman · Post by **Spiny Norman** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:21 am

Helen wrote:Do you already have the Eddie Cantor vehicle Roman Scandals (1933) on your list? Fits your "classical comedy" category exactly.

Got it! But yes, that's exactly the thing I am looking for.

Spiny Norman · Post by **Spiny Norman** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:21 am

Rodney wrote:
Helen wrote:Do you already have the Eddie Cantor vehicle Roman Scandals (1933) on your list? Fits your "classical comedy" category exactly.
There are a number of things by George Melies that could be considered parodies of the classics. Le Tonerre de Jupiter (Jupiter's Thunderballs) comes to mind because of the classical mythology setting, but he did a lot with Egyptian mummies, medieval wizards, oriental potentates, and the like.

But those were probably meant to be really frightening. And hard to find.

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:59 am

Spiny Norman wrote:
Rodney wrote:
There are a number of things by George Melies that could be considered parodies of the classics. Le Tonerre de Jupiter (Jupiter's Thunderballs) comes to mind because of the classical mythology setting, but he did a lot with Egyptian mummies, medieval wizards, oriental potentates, and the like.
But those were probably meant to be really frightening. And hard to find.

Actually, "no" on both counts. Jupiter's Thunderballs is very silly -- his lightning bolt doesn't work, so he gets Hephestus to fix it on his forge, then when he picks it up he burns his fingers and has to use a handkerchief as a pot holder, etc. And it is available on the new Melies set from Flicker Alley, so it's on DVD. You can find synopses of many of the Melies films online to see if there are others that are worth tracking down. Most of these films are only a minute or two long, so it's no huge investment in time! Start here: http://filmjournal.net/melies/list-of-titles/

Spiny Norman · Post by **Spiny Norman** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:48 am

I'll have a look. But Melies unwrapping Cleopatra's mummy in 1899 wasn't a comedy, was it??

Spiny Norman · Post by **Spiny Norman** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:53 pm

Unfortunately, Melies' Jupiter and Cleopatra shorts don't seem to be on the DVD set.

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:41 pm

You must be looking at the wrong DVD set. The one from Flicker Alley has the Jupiter film (I did the score for it, one reason I remember it so well). I don't know about a Cleopatra film, but there are excerpts of the mummy film, though as you say it's less of a comedy and more of a trick film. The films about fantasy oriental potentates are more comic.

Spiny Norman · Post by **Spiny Norman** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:02 am

Oh yes, I see. Unfortunately it does not contain the Cleopatra's mummy video (which is what would interest me at this moment).

Spiny Norman · Post by **Spiny Norman** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:29 pm

I've just discovered there was a whole line of Hysterical History short movies around 1924/1925... from Universal Pictures. Subjects were Nero, Raleigh, Columbus, Rembrandt, the prehistoric man and the Olympic Games. But it's hard to find any information on these.

I read a comment on the IMDB that Braff's book on silent movies contains many errors, could that be true?

Pathe Lehrman · Post by **Pathe Lehrman** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:28 am

I read a comment on the IMDB that Braff's book on silent movies contains many errors, could that be true?

Yes, based on my limited experience with his two volumes, cross-checking titles and credits from primary sources against his listings, it's true. Not necessarily his fault, but true.

Tom R

Spiny Norman · Post by **Spiny Norman** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:42 pm

Pathe Lehrman wrote:
I read a comment on the IMDB that Braff's book on silent movies contains many errors, could that be true?
Yes, based on my limited experience with his two volumes, cross-checking titles and credits from primary sources against his listings, it's true. Not necessarily his fault, but true.

Tom R

Hm, pity; but who's fault is it? Incomplete documents?

Pathe Lehrman · Post by **Pathe Lehrman** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:07 pm

Hm, pity; but who's fault is it?

One example is that there was another Sunshine Film, Inc. located at 729 Seventh Ave in NYC that was formed in 1918 to make 1- and 2-reel comedies starring Gus Pixley for the states rights market. The first two releases, "No Money-No Fun" and "The Bogus Uncle" erroneously get attributed to Fox Sunshine, an understandable mistake.

There are a number of misspelled and misreported names of actors and actresses as well, but I don't recall any specifics off the top of my head.

Having said that, Braff's two volumes were an enormous undertaking, and contain a wealth of valuable information. My comments in no way were intended to diminish the scope and usefulness of his contributions. The only entries I've looked at to date were for the various films that Henry Lehrman, Billie Ritchie, and William Beaudine were associated with, along with the entries for Sterling, L-KO, Fox Sunshine, and Joker.

Tom R

Silent comedy in historical setting (question)

Silent comedy in historical setting (question)

Re: Silent comedy in historical setting (question)

Re: Silent comedy in historical setting (question)