Truncated print of SHOW OF SHOWS from Warner Archive?

CoffeeDan · Post by **CoffeeDan** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:48 am

Last month I ordered the new 6-disc Vitaphone set from Warner Archive, and decided to order THE SHOW OF SHOWS along with it (to make better use of a 25% off coupon and get free shipping).

I got my order on Monday, and watched SHOW OF SHOWS yesterday, and to my surprise, the print was severely truncated! No George Charpentier, no John Barrymore, no Rin-Tin-Tin, no Winnie Lightner in the bathtub, no Myrna Loy in Technicolor, or most of the money acts! According to the back cover of the DVD, the film has a running time of 123 minutes, but my copy ran only 64 minutes! What the hey?!

I called Warners customer service, and they were as incredulous as I was, adding that they would send me a replacement copy.

How the heck did this happen? Has anybody else gotten this truncated copy of SHOW OF SHOWS?

drednm · Post by **drednm** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:54 pm

Very odd, Dan.

I recently bought an "upgrade" of Ranson's Folly through the TCM/Movies Unlimited off the TCM website. What I got was the exact GRAPEVINE copy I already had. In the ad there is no mention of Grapevine or a picture of the cover, which would have given it away.

Jack Theakston · Post by **Jack Theakston** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:56 pm

The TCM/Movies Unlimited is NOT the Warner Archive, nor is it actually associated with TCM/WB. Movies Unlimited is a third party seller, so if you're buying through them, it's pot luck depending on who their sources are.

drednm · Post by **drednm** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:08 pm

Yes Jack... I know that.

MU also lists a film called The Big Chance (1933) as having Eleanor Boardman in the cast. It's actually someone called Virginia True Boardman.

Harold Aherne · Post by **Harold Aherne** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:15 pm

CoffeeDan wrote:Last month I ordered the new 6-disc Vitaphone set from Warner Archive, and decided to order THE SHOW OF SHOWS along with it (to make better use of a 25% off coupon and get free shipping).

I got my order on Monday, and watched SHOW OF SHOWS yesterday, and to my surprise, the print was severely truncated! No George Charpentier, no John Barrymore, no Rin-Tin-Tin, no Winnie Lightner in the bathtub, no Myrna Loy in Technicolor, or most of the money acts! According to the back cover of the DVD, the film has a running time of 123 minutes, but my copy ran only 64 minutes! What the hey?!

I called Warners customer service, and they were as incredulous as I was, adding that they would send me a replacement copy.

How the heck did this happen? Has anybody else gotten this truncated copy of SHOW OF SHOWS?

I haven't ordered this one yet, but several users at the Home Theater Forum also complained of receiving 64-minute copies of Show of Shows soon after it became available in 12/09. Reportedly WHV sent out corrected copies, but clearly some bugs are still in the system.

-Harold

FrankFay · Post by **FrankFay** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:41 pm

If they get the screw-up corrected I definitely want SHOW OF SHOWS. I think it's one of the best of the All-Star pictures.

dr.giraud · Post by **dr.giraud** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:33 pm

My WA copy of SHOW OF SHOWS is fine. Myrna and Nick and Rinty are all present in their Technicolor glory.

azjazzman · Post by **azjazzman** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:15 pm

FrankFay wrote:If they get the screw-up corrected I definitely want SHOW OF SHOWS. I think it's one of the best of the All-Star pictures.

You can follow this on a thread on HOME THEATER FORUM, but the short version is this:

Yes, the original batch of SHOW OF SHOWS DVDs from Warner Archive did have a truncation problem. They corrected the problem and anyone who asked for a replacement was sent one. I have a copy of the corrected DVD.

The customer service person that the OP talked to must be new, as this problem has been well known ever since SHOW OF SHOWS came out.

There was a similar problem with the VAULT DVD of TARNISHED ANGELS and that has been corrected also.

greta de groat · Post by **greta de groat** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:35 pm

drednm wrote:Yes Jack... I know that.

MU also lists a film called The Big Chance (1933) as having Eleanor Boardman in the cast. It's actually someone called Virginia True Boardman.

That's True Boardman's widow, who played bit parts into the mid 30s. Funny they should pick up on the name (even if they got it wrong ) because according to IMDb she wasn't even billed in that film.

greta

drednm · Post by **drednm** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:43 am

Greta.. yes she's listed under additional cast and played Mrs. Wilson. I have no idea who she is or who True Boardman is....

When I called and told MU I bought the film because they listed Eleanor Boardman, they canceled it (but they haven't corrected the listing).

CoffeeDan · Post by **CoffeeDan** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:34 am

Harold Aherne wrote:I haven't ordered this one yet, but several users at the Home Theater Forum also complained of receiving 64-minute copies of Show of Shows soon after it became available in 12/09. Reportedly WHV sent out corrected copies, but clearly some bugs are still in the system.

-Harold

Thanks, Harold. I was able to access the Home Theater Forum yesterday (before I saw azjazzman's post -- but thanks anyway), and found the relevant part of the Warner Archive thread where several posters also described receiving a shortened print of SHOW OF SHOWS. And it seems the Warner Archive satisfied them all by sending out corrected copies.

As the Warner Archive customer service rep so dutifully explained to me, they only make as many copies as they need at a given time. So my question is, if the problem has been corrected, why did I still come up short over a year later? Is there a defective master still about, or did I just get a leftover copy that was kicking around in the warehouse?

One thing I was grateful for: They offered to send the corrected copy to my PO box. Since the Warner Archive went over to UPS for home delivery, they stopped delivering to PO boxes, except for APO and PPO addresses. But customer service offered delivery to my PO box right off the top, which means I should get it that much quicker.

greta de groat · Post by **greta de groat** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:44 am

drednm wrote:Greta.. yes she's listed under additional cast and played Mrs. Wilson. I have no idea who she is or who True Boardman is....

Oh, that's nice that she got billing anyway, IMDB had said she didn't. She also went by the name of Virginia Eames. True Boardman was a former Niles Essanay actor who went on to leading roles in features, most notably in Tarzan of the Apes as Tarzan's father. He died in the Spanish Flu epidemic in 1918. His son, also named True Boardman, was an actor and writer and active up until his death in 2003.

greta

moviepas · Post by **moviepas** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:47 am

This 125mins film had been in 2-strip for its whole 125mins lucky that bit was found. I Have some professional software to do certain work I need to do in my business, small as it is, and I had a problem with a new version of the software which I have a lifetime(read so long as the company exists) & it chopped out the last half of a film but all smaller items were there complete. So they quickly did a BETA that solved the problem. More recently with another new version sent to me the soundtrack was often missing but not on all pieces of film being encoded. It would list one stream and that was the video. we had this corrected & I had no sound on another 110mins file and the message was that the soundtrack was not compatible, unknown sound source. But is was AC3 2.0 So another BETA. Seems OK currently but....

With returning WB or another faulty to DD is a nightmare because they insist on the return unlike Amazon. So I had Disc 4 of the Swing Set unplayable & unreparable but I tried. It costs A$15 and they refused refund of that because it was too late coming back but they replaced the set as they did with Rio Rita. I made sure I got a back up of the 5 good discs before I let it go back but commonsense would tell you that with a set like that one does not sit down and watch from end to end & I have the Laserdisc set less the extra 2hrs on DVD.

I dread anymore faulty discs from them because we now have to pay an extra A$9 per item over 16ozs all because some Yemeni terrorist tried to blow up a plane over Detroit or Metro Airport. They have group us a a terrorist place which is nonsense. If you have an account with the Post Office there is no fee! So I guess the terrorist only needs to take the bomb package to work and dump it in the outwards mail bag. Ebay sellers are none too happy.

Jan 8 addition:
Just went to put in a number of Warner Archive to DD & noticed the price I had ordered them at(US$16.47) had jumped to nearly US$24 & The Human Comedy from about US$22 to US$30. So I canceled and will wait for a sail later on which they are sure to have. I ended up ordering at a better price with international postage included from TCM Shopping along with their exclusives & the latest WB Shorts box set which DD have not listed.

Amazon had a few hikes as well for items I had in the cart but a $20(Marketplace) book had gone and I am getting it for 15c now so the US$18 increase on DVD/Blu Ray titles I was ordering balanced out!!!!

Christmas must be over but the DD hike is a lot considering they are not keeping up with the issued titles.

Jim Reid · Post by **Jim Reid** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:28 am

After reading this thread, I checked my disc, which I had not watched yet. It is the 64 minute version. I emailed Warners about it. We'll see what happens.

Richard Finegan · Post by **Richard Finegan** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:03 am

CoffeeDan wrote:Last month I ordered the new 6-disc Vitaphone set from Warner Archive, and decided to order THE SHOW OF SHOWS along with it (to make better use of a 25% off coupon and get free shipping).

I got my order on Monday, and watched SHOW OF SHOWS yesterday, and to my surprise, the print was severely truncated! No George Charpentier, no John Barrymore, no Rin-Tin-Tin, no Winnie Lightner in the bathtub, no Myrna Loy in Technicolor, or most of the money acts! According to the back cover of the DVD, the film has a running time of 123 minutes, but my copy ran only 64 minutes! What the hey?!

I called Warners customer service, and they were as incredulous as I was, adding that they would send me a replacement copy.

How the heck did this happen? Has anybody else gotten this truncated copy of SHOW OF SHOWS?

I was unaware there had been any problem with this disc.
Now, one year later, I know why they sent me a second copy!
I ordered THE SHOW OF SHOWS on Dec. 16, 2009 and it was fine...a complete print. Then a few weeks later, on January 5, 2010 they sent me a second copy with this note: "It's come to our attention that your copy of Show of Shows may have suffered from a manufacturing error. Please find enclosed a replacement copy of the film at no cost to you.
We greatly value your continued patronage of the Warner Archive Collection and apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused."

That sure was nice of them to make sure customers were sent a replacement even if they hadn't reported a problem. Did anyone else who ordered it right away receive an unexpected replacement ?
I have to say that so far every time I have had to deal with the Warner Archive Customer Service they have been very cooperative and helpful.

westegg · Post by **westegg** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:13 am

I ordered SHOWS early on (having seen it frequently over the years), but didn't look at the DVD until I read this thread. Fortunately it was the complete print. Bit of suspense there though.

Harlett O'Dowd · Post by **Harlett O'Dowd** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:51 am

westegg wrote:I ordered SHOWS early on (having seen it frequently over the years), but didn't look at the DVD until I read this thread. Fortunately it was the complete print. Bit of suspense there though.

Me too. Whew!

Jack Theakston · Post by **Jack Theakston** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:01 pm

Interestingly, Harrison's Reports lists the film as being 13,464 ft (150 minutes) on November 30, although this seems to be before the film premiered, and Technicolor's notes mention 9,987 ft (111 min.), so clearly, no matter what the running time, not all of the footage was in Technicolor.

Jim Reid · Post by **Jim Reid** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:29 pm

Well, I've got the short version and no answer yet from Warners.

CoffeeDan · Post by **CoffeeDan** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:19 pm

Well, I got my replacement copy of SHOW OF SHOWS today . . . and it was ANOTHER copy of the 64-minute version.

Back to WA customer service. This time, I spoke to a rep who seemed to know more about the situation than the last rep I talked to. She said she would attach a note to my replacement order to the company that burns their DVDs to be sure I get a corrected copy this time. "When something like this happens once, it's usually a fluke," she told me. "When it happens twice, something's wrong at the plant -- they might have a defective master on the shelf, or something like that."

Checking this out and getting it right could take a little longer, she said -- about 1-2 weeks, but I will be notified when the new copy is shipped.

Bulletins aired as received . . .

Jim Reid · Post by **Jim Reid** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:18 pm

Hey Dan, could you send me that telephone number. I can't find it on the website and I've sent two emails with no response.

Jim Reid · Post by **Jim Reid** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:35 am

Well they tell me my replacement disc is on the way. Thanks Dan.

Jim Reid · Post by **Jim Reid** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:10 pm

My replacement copy arrived today. It is the restored version.

CoffeeDan · Post by **CoffeeDan** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:25 pm

That's encouraging, Jim. I haven't received an email from Warners yet, and I don't get any mail until Tuesday, but we'll see what happens.

I did tell the WA customer service rep about Nitrateville.com and this thread, and that they could get some additional inquiries about SHOW OF SHOWS as a result. Maybe that helped you.

Richard Finegan · Post by **Richard Finegan** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:21 am

One question I haven't seen anyone ask yet, but you gotta wonder:
Why and when was this truncated print made anyway?

Phototone · Post by **Phototone** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:35 pm

My copy, which I ordered on Jan 3, 2011 as part of a package of 6 early talkies is also the truncated version. I have sent in a request for a replacement DVD-R. Odd that after over a year, they are still shipping this defective version.

moviepas · Post by **moviepas** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:13 am

Today, I was moving stuff around with my huge collection of DVDs & CDs and found a small box with Show of Shows & other Depression musicals WAC issued. If the date of arrival is for the right box then I got it on June 25 2010 at my door. I placed it in the computer and watched bits and got 13 chapter stops and the running time was listed on the interface as 125m 17 seconds. I ran bits and its all there. Color bit and all. Looking up the film I was told that the film is incomplete from the 1929 issue but no details and that about 17mins or so was in black & white(including the beginning reel) because the Technicolor camera was needed elsewhere.

Unfortunately, these pages directed me to others and gave me more depressing information(rightly or wrongly) about various film loses & fires. I don't want to keep ready these. But some known calamities were not listed in those pages.

CoffeeDan · Post by **CoffeeDan** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:55 am

FINALLY! The Warner Archive called me last week, telling me the problem with the defective master of SHOW OF SHOWS has been resolved and they would be sending me a corrected copy. I got it Wednesday, but didn't get around to watching it until yesterday, but it is indeed the whole show.

And I heartily concur with Frank Fay that it is probably the best of the early talkie all-star revues. I originally intended to watch just a few minutes here and there to see what I missed the first time, but I ended up watching the whole 2+ hours right then and there. A real joy.

However, one thing about it has piqued my curiosity. In the "Lady Luck" finale, there is a weird cross-fade in the middle of the number. In the truncated copy, the film jumped from the end of the "Sister Act" number to the other side of this fade. Can someone more knowledgable than I tell me if this was a production error, or part of the original film?

FrankFay · Post by **FrankFay** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:13 am

From what I've read and surmise what we're seeing is not the complete film. It was most probably cut for its 1950's television reissue and the end of the finale lopped off at that time. I can only guess that footage from another source was found to replace the end but they didn't mesh. The other possibility is that a musical number was cut.

Nevertheless it's quite a finale, from the women up in the chandeliers to the acrobatic dancers below. It must have been eye-popping in color.

Tommie Hicks · Post by **Tommie Hicks** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:47 am

I noticed something when I watched this film last. It is in the recitations segment that had Lloyd Hamilton and Frank Fay among others. When Hamilton starts his turn, Fay says something to Hamilton that seems to me to be an ad-lib. Fay says "Lloyd Hamilton, we haven't seen you for a while, you look great." The reason no-one had seen Hamilton for a while was because he had been banned from motion picture acting by the Hays office just prior which surely Frank Fay knew as did most movie-goers. After Fay says this to Hamilton, Hamilton shoots him a short, restrained for the show, snide look. Knowing the history between Hamilton and Fay's father it gives me the impression that Fay, Jr. was a smart ass in real life.

Truncated print of SHOW OF SHOWS from Warner Archive?

Truncated print of SHOW OF SHOWS from Warner Archive?

Re: Truncated print of SHOW OF SHOWS from Warner Archive?

Re: Truncated print of SHOW OF SHOWS from Warner Archive?

Show of Shows

Re: Truncated print of SHOW OF SHOWS from Warner Archive?

Show of Shows