Whats the chance of a serial...???

Tastypotpie · Post by **Tastypotpie** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:19 pm

Whats the chance of an American serial being released by one of the standard three companies that releases silent films? Like, Kino-Milestone-Shepard? We've had three French Feuillade's, two germans, and one Russian (Miss Mend)... How about a good old cliff hanging, girl tied up in burning shack, guy getting chased down a hill by boulders, "whuts-gunna-happen-next-week??!!" American serial?

I've seen some of the presentations from some of the smaller companies like Grapevine and Serial Squadron and they're ok....but, I'm always wondering why the "big" guys haven't done anything involving, to me, some really exciting pictures! (aside from kino releasing what exists from THE MASTER MYSTERY-but the emphasis to it's release was more on it's star than the film it's self)

Surely, there's nothing wrong American serials? Why all the attention to the films from Europe?

Take a look at this...The Trail of the Octopus
(note: if you're offended by modern scores, you may not like the music)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1A_OfWU8ao

I don't know about you folks, but I thought that was exciting.

Even the introductory titles announcing the principal players was amazing...and odd.

So, yeah, whats the deal? ...and could their be a chance of an American serial coming to home video form in a decent edition?

(....and has there ever been a film where a female protagonist REALLY GAVE IT to a male villain? I mean, walloped him good!

)

boblipton · Post by **boblipton** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:24 pm

Jack Hardy at Grapevine issues the occasional serial. Recently he came out with a beautiful edition of THE PERILS OF PAULINE in the -chapter European release. And, of course, the Serial Squadron specializes in this sort of thing, with several disks for sale at

http://www.serialsquadron.com/dvds/index.htm

But I doubt that there's enough of a commercial market for the typical stuff directed by JP MacGowan to pay for the restoration and presentation you're speaking of.

Bob

Tastypotpie · Post by **Tastypotpie** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:50 pm

Aww, sure there is. No one thought that there would be an interest in baseball pictures, but Reel Baseball became one of Kino's popular silent titles.

boblipton · Post by **boblipton** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:59 pm

I'm not the one you have to convince.

Bob

Scoundrel · Post by **Scoundrel** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:41 pm

Is the Grapevine DVD of THE PERILS OF PAULINE the best available..?

Has this title been released in the American 20 chapter format..?

boblipton · Post by **boblipton** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:13 pm

I think the Grapevine is lovely. It's a tinted print and Jack spent the money to do it on dvd, rather than dvd-r.

The 20-episode one is reputed to no longer survive.

Bob

Scoundrel · Post by **Scoundrel** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:24 pm

The Grapevine is the one that I have.

Thanks for the reply.

Post by **silentfilm** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:58 pm

The Perils of Pauline only survives in a 9-chapter re-edit that was released on 28mm in France during World War I. For more information on the changes, see this Nitrateville thread.

Besides Pauline, David Shepard (and Blackhawk) released full serials of The Mystery of the Double Cross (1917) and The Woman in Gray (1920). I know that EmGee has The Power God (1925) available on film.

It looks like the Serial Squadron is releasing The Trail of the Octopus (1919). http://www.serialsquadron.com/pledgepro ... /index.htm.

Brooksie · Post by **Brooksie** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:17 pm

Some companies would probably consider the fact that so many serials survive in an incomplete form as a barrier to their release (just imagine a cliffhanger that never gets resolved ... ever!). That doesn't mean there wouldn't be scope for a compilation of episodes from different serials - it would just have a different sort of appeal.

I see that an episode of `The Active Life of Dolly of the Dailies' (1914) was amongst the films found in the New Zealand archive, and is being restored by AMPAS. Perhaps that would be a good candidate for such a compilation?

deverett · Post by **deverett** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:57 am

There is a surprising amount of serial material out there, and quite a number of them were released on small gauge film which is what winds up on most of the dvd's... Ones that I don't think were mentioned that are out there are.. Officer 444, Exploits of Elaine, episodes of Zudora, a number of Hazards of Helen, and others, then there are feature versions like Hawk of the Hills, Days of 49...The archives possess an even more staggering amount of material but there is no money for the work since most serials would take anywhere from 2 - 5x times the cost of a feature to work on.

I know that UCLA have done the work of making dupe negatives of all they have on Pearl of the Army and Plunder (2 Pearl White serials) but may never be able to finish the jobs... Likewise they have a number of episodes of Who Pays? but have only been able to finish 1 or 2.....There is even more out there on 16mm. I know we have the whole Hope Diamond Mystery where I work at USC along with a number of others....It all comes down to supply and demand, and even if an archive does all of the work to duplicate and clean up the material for a possible release it depends on the companies..

Personally I love serials and would support more getting out there, but I believe I am in the minority when it comes to actually spending money on the product...

barafan · Post by **barafan** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:22 am

Well, count me in as one who likes serials, though the only ones I've seen so far are Miss Mend, Beatrice Fairfax, The Perils of Pauline and The Master Mystery. I do wish Serials Squadron would release volume 2 of BF, but I'd really like to see The Hazards of Helen or The Adventures of Kathlyn (does it even exist? Does The Ventures of Marguerite exist?)

BTW - anyone on this thread ever read Kalton Lahue's Bound and Gagged? Any thoughts?

Post by **silentfilm** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:43 am

The Veiled Priestess, chapter 4 of The Ventures of Marguerite certainly exists, because it was sold by Blackhawk, and I have a 16mm print.

And here's a thread on the surviving Hazards of Helen episodes. Of the 119 episodes, there are not too many that survive. There's a seller on eBay that is selling a home-made Hazards of Helen DVD, and he says that four episodes are all that survive, but that is missing a few surviving episodes.

missdupont · Post by **missdupont** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:29 am

At least 1-2 episodes of THE ADVENTURES OF KATHLYN exist, because AMPAS showed it in conjunction with plaster animals from the Selig Zoo being restored and installed at the Los Angeles Zoo about 2 years ago.

Chris Snowden · Post by **Chris Snowden** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:20 am

deverett wrote:I know that UCLA have done the work of making dupe negatives of all they have on Pearl of the Army and Plunder (2 Pearl White serials) but may never be able to finish the jobs...

According to the Magliozzi book, the Library of Congress has nearly all of Pearl of the Army (1918), so maybe that one's complete. I don't know why it isn't in circulation. It's got Pearl White, and it's from her most celebrated era, so I'll bet it's a winner (unlike The Perils of Pauline and The Exploits of Elaine, none of which I ever need to see again).

The folks who took umbrage with the production work on the Chaplin Keystone set will be beside themselves when they see what's being done to The Trail of the Octopus. The producers are filming new scenes to recreate footage that's missing from the surviving material. (Gee, maybe we can get them to recreate the missing scenes from Laurel and Hardy's The Battle of the Century?)

Post by **silentfilm** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:46 am

Chris, are you sure that you don't have this confused with a new filming of The Mysteries of Myra?

http://www.mysteriesofmyra.com/

Chris Snowden · Post by **Chris Snowden** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:19 pm

silentfilm wrote:Chris, are you sure that you don't have this confused with a new filming of The Mysteries of Myra?

No, the Octopus producers' nefarious plans stand revealed in this quote:

This serial is being restored by the Serial Squadron and even some missing scenes are being re-filmed with contemporary actors in order to have the story be as complete as possible.

...which can be found half-way down the page of this announcement:
http://thepulpreader.blogspot.com/2010/ ... topus.html

All outrage aside, there's a YouTube segment of the footage that looks pretty nice, and you gotta love that image of the giant octopus holding Ben Wilson and Neva Gerber in its tentacles.

Tastypotpie · Post by **Tastypotpie** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:52 pm

boblipton wrote:I'm not the one you have to convince.

Bob

Didn't know I had to convince anyone.

Tastypotpie · Post by **Tastypotpie** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:54 pm

Chris Snowden wrote:
silentfilm wrote:Chris, are you sure that you don't have this confused with a new filming of The Mysteries of Myra?
No, the Octopus producers' nefarious plans stand revealed in this quote:
This serial is being restored by the Serial Squadron and even some missing scenes are being re-filmed with contemporary actors in order to have the story be as complete as possible.
...which can be found half-way down the page of this announcement:
http://thepulpreader.blogspot.com/2010/ ... topus.html

All outrage aside, there's a YouTube segment of the footage that looks pretty nice, and you gotta love that image of the giant octopus holding Ben Wilson and Neva Gerber in its tentacles.

That youtube segment is the one I linked above in my first post.

Richard M Roberts · Post by **Richard M Roberts** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:13 pm

Chris Snowden wrote:
deverett wrote:I know that UCLA have done the work of making dupe negatives of all they have on Pearl of the Army and Plunder (2 Pearl White serials) but may never be able to finish the jobs...
According to the Magliozzi book, the Library of Congress has nearly all of Pearl of the Army (1918), so maybe that one's complete. I don't know why it isn't in circulation. It's got Pearl White, and it's from her most celebrated era, so I'll bet it's a winner (unlike The Perils of Pauline and The Exploits of Elaine, none of which I ever need to see again).

The folks who took umbrage with the production work on the Chaplin Keystone set will be beside themselves when they see what's being done to The Trail of the Octopus. The producers are filming new scenes to recreate footage that's missing from the surviving material. (Gee, maybe we can get them to recreate the missing scenes from Laurel and Hardy's The Battle of the Century?)

Umbrage indeed! The Serial Squadron's "recreations" that I have seen are pretty amateurish indeed, with rather non-professional actors filling in for their long-dead counterparts in the original serials. I'd rather just see what survives of the originals without somebody wanting to play Cecil B. Demille (or would that be James W. Horne?) and put their own creative stamp on the works of others.

RICHARD M ROBERTS

FrankFay · Post by **FrankFay** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:43 pm

Who wants to bet this will be another incomplete Serial Squadron project?

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:38 pm

silentfilm wrote:I know that EmGee has The Power God (1925) available on film.

It's also available on a DVD. This is a complete serial, and was screened (from EmGee's films) over the course of one summer at the Chautauqua Silent Film Festival.

http://turnerclassic.moviesunlimited.co ... sku=D36732

Several episodes of Hazards of Helen were released on the various "Treasures from the American Film Archives" DVDs. I've been told that technically, Helen is a "series" rather than a "serial," since each episode is self-contained, so there are no "cliff hangers" to be resolved in future episodes. She hangs from things plenty, but the dangers are resolved within the episode.

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:44 pm

Tastypotpie wrote:(....and has there ever been a film where a female protagonist REALLY GAVE IT to a male villain? I mean, walloped him good! )

I seem to remember Mary Pickford giving a good whacking with an iron frying pan in Tess of the Storm Country. But most of the heroines I've seen do tend to get the villain at gunpoint, and let the men tie him up. They are, after all, supposed to be sensitive things, even though brave.

In comedies things are different -- Buster's encounters with a cave woman and with an oriental dancer in "The Three Ages" comes to mind.

boblipton · Post by **boblipton** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:52 pm

The same thing happens in the Al Hoxie western THE ACE OF CLUBS. I think it's supposed to be a comedy.

Bob

Micromegas · Post by **Micromegas** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:14 am

I'm all for it and it's time to beat the horse even deader....when's somebody going to put together everything there is on Exploits of Elaine? Come on. Pearl White. Sheldon Lewis. National Film Registry. Craig Kennedy, a popular fiction character of the last century.

Also at the top of the list of serials that I'm dying to see are The Wolves of Kultur and The Sky Ranger (probably the definitive sci fi silent serial if there ever was one).

But I'd be open to viewing lots of others. Silent serials are f.u.n.

Steve

Chris Snowden · Post by **Chris Snowden** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:55 am

Micromegas wrote:I'm all for it and it's time to beat the horse even deader....when's somebody going to put together everything there is on Exploits of Elaine? Come on. Pearl White. Sheldon Lewis. National Film Registry. Craig Kennedy, a popular fiction character of the last century.

I had that idea once. At the time, I had video transfers of several episodes, and another couple on 16mm, but I just didn't like the serial. In the episodes I had, all the action took place indoors, and most of that consisted of people talking to each other (and talking, and talking).

I like Officer 444, and The Woman in Grey has a few great action sequences, but for the most part I've been disappointed with the silent serials I've seen.

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:36 am

Chris Snowden wrote:
Micromegas wrote:I'm all for it and it's time to beat the horse even deader....when's somebody going to put together everything there is on Exploits of Elaine? Come on. Pearl White. Sheldon Lewis. National Film Registry. Craig Kennedy, a popular fiction character of the last century.
I had that idea once. At the time, I had video transfers of several episodes, and another couple on 16mm, but I just didn't like the serial. In the episodes I had, all the action took place indoors, and most of that consisted of people talking to each other (and talking, and talking).

I like Officer 444, and The Woman in Grey has a few great action sequences, but for the most part I've been disappointed with the silent serials I've seen.

Yes, that's part of their limitations, and I think you have to consider it part of their charm if you're going to enjoy them -- filming people talking (and even guys fist-fighting and wrestling) was a lot cheaper than stunts, elaborate sets, and car crashes. So you tend to find that they filled a lot of episodes with the cheap stuff. You got the feeling that they were thinking "we've got to fill twelve minutes, and our cliff-hanger will only take three! Bring in the villainess and have her talk threateningly to the heroine for four minutes, then let's have the hero get jumped by thugs in the alley, but he fights them off. In episode three that gave us four minutes, and it should work again."

azjazzman · Post by **azjazzman** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:55 am

Chris Snowden wrote:
I had that idea once. At the time, I had video transfers of several episodes, and another couple on 16mm, but I just didn't like the serial. In the episodes I had, all the action took place indoors, and most of that consisted of people talking to each other (and talking, and talking).

I like Officer 444, and The Woman in Grey has a few great action sequences, but for the most part I've been disappointed with the silent serials I've seen.

Yeah, 'ol Robert Youngson fooled us into thinking all silent serials were like that last part of "The Days of Thrills and Laughter".

Post by **silentfilm** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:57 am

And when Blackhawk released the entire serial The Woman in Gray, they released edited versions of each chapter, because the first several minutes of each episode was a recap of what happened in the last episode!

Rodney · Post by **Rodney** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:05 pm

silentfilm wrote:And when Blackhawk released the entire serial The Woman in Gray, they released edited versions of each chapter, because the first several minutes of each episode was a recap of what happened in the last episode!

I suppose -- with careful musical scoring -- that would be a good use for the "multiple thread" feature on DVDs. You could watch it with or without the recaps. That way, if you decided to watch it as intended (one episode per week on your "movie nights"), you'd get the recaps. Or if you wanted to see it at one sitting, you could play it as one long film.

R Michael Pyle · Post by **R Michael Pyle** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:25 pm

I don't remember who released it (I'm thinking it was Grapevine), but "Lightning Hutch" with Charles Hutchison is available, and although not technically the rather "new-fangled" girl on the tracks serial, but the old fashioned "feature-style" in segments, this is really good, and photographed particularly well. Hutch was once the main serial guy. This was supposed to be his comeback vehicle, but it failed at the box office.

Whats the chance of a serial...???

Whats the chance of a serial...???

Re: Whats the chance of a serial...???