Theda Bara, Actress

[spadeneal]

I know Hal Erickson is on this list, and he wrote the following in his Theda Bara bio for Rovi.

Her somewhat overripe histrionics became out of fashion by 1920, so she retired from acting to married life; Bara resurfaced in a "so bad it's good" Broadway play The Blue Flame, then made an unsuccessful film comeback attempt in 1925. Her last screen work was in a two-reel lampoon of her vamp character, Madame Mystery (1926), directed by, of all people, Stan Laurel

I'm not addressing Hal directly but the list as whole; I offer apologies in advance for any harm done in questioning the statement above. But what is the factual basis for "overripe histrionics?" Contemporary reviews? She wasn't just out of fashion by 1920; Bara was out of the movies entirely, done in by the fracas surrounding Kathleen Mavourneen (1919), an ill-chosen role that completely sapped her star strength. That was, as I understand it, the main reason for her downfall, although I concur that the post-romantic concept of "The Vamp" wasn't something that could be carried into the jazz age without some measure of parody, though some of DON may have opinions about that, and I'd like to hear them.

And why "by of all people" Stan Laurel? Stan directed about a dozen comedy shorts and was pretty good at it, I understand. No malice intended; just asking.

spadeneal

[sepiatone]

Bara, it would seem was out of movies after 'Kathleen Mavourneen' cause she was worn out. Look at her filmography for three years and see how William Fox worked the hell out of her as did Zukor and Lasky did Pauline Frederick and Wally Reid. Bara was offered the Queen of Sheba role before Betty Blythe. QoS was Fox's biggest ever production up to 1921 complete with chariot race. But Bara turned it down. Betty Blythe also disappeared from the Fox lot after QoS because Wm. Fox himself was making unwanted sexual advances towards her and she refused thereby invoking the ire of Fox.

[barafan]

Well, Bara certainly was worn out by 1919. Since A Fool There Was, her Fox output was nearly a movie every seven weeks, with hardly any time off in between, so I can absolutely see her at the end of the rope after the backlash to Mavourneen. Now, certainly contemporary opinion of The Blue Flame was withering, one critic calling it the sort of melodrama you go slumming for, hoping to see something just that bad, but it did play to packed houses and made Bara a rich woman, if also branding her as a big joke.

The documentary The Woman With The Hungry Eyes touched on Bara's dramatic prowess, noting that she was a student of the expressive Delsarte style of acting, which specified certain expressions for certain emotions, and that this sort of technique fell out of favor as a more 'naturalistic' style came into being. Not that I think she couldn't have been a more 'natural' actress; her performance in The Unchastened Woman is very intimate, with only a few nods to the old style. But with so much of her film output lost, it's impossible to tell just how good of a film and stage actress she was.

As far as carrying over the vamp persona into the 1920s and parodying it - well, that is part of the appeal of Madame Mystery. I think Bara could have done it (she was known for having a great sense of humor about "Theda Bara"), but by the time of Unchastened Woman she had been out of movies, as you say, spadeneal, and I think top-level directors were leery of signing up someone so branded as a very specific type with a very specific style (and of course, it didn't help matters that TUW didn't make much money).

And I think the "of all people, Stan Laurel" comment is meant in the sense that he would be the last person you would associate with Theda Bara, not a knock on him personally

[silentfilm]

I'll agreee with barafan completely, and also say that by the time her Fox contract was up, she was also married to Charles Brabin and he was an "old school" kind of guy who did not want her working anymore. I'm sure that she was glad to have some time off for a few months after her grueling Fox schedule.

I've heard that the surviving East Lynne is completely allegorical, and thus very difficult for modern audiences to relate to. Bara rarely played normal women in a modern setting. She frequently portrayed a famous person or character in a historical setting.

[spadeneal]

And I think the "of all people, Stan Laurel" comment is meant in the sense that he would be the last person you would associate with Theda Bara, not a knock on him personally

Point taken -- I didn't follow the meaning of the phrase within the context, though it seems silent movie people - in Hollywood at least - were a fairly closely knit group compared to later. It is not as much a reach for me, though, as seeing Sonny Liston in a boxing match with Davy Jones in The Monkees' Head for example.

I asked these questions because I did a radio piece on her today which I think will air later in the month. In the end, I decided to let Theda speak for herself in terms of her acting. There really isn't enough out there to judge her with in a way that seems sensible with her known biography; that she was overexposed is obvious.

The Mavourneen incident, though, is significant because during it the word got out that she was Jewish. It not only fanned the flames of antisemitism among those who really hated that movie but also revealed to anyone that had taken any of the studio screed seriously that they'd been had. Most folks in such a situation shrug their shoulders and move on, and they did move on without Theda Bara. But she wouldn't have lasted as long as she did if there wasn't something about her talent that attracted audiences; they really did go to see most of those movies.

spadeneal

[barafan]

But she wouldn't have lasted as long as she did if there wasn't something about her talent that attracted audiences.

Absolutely. Fox's publicity department created "Theda Bara," but all the publicity in the world isn't going to put people in the seats if the product is bad (although, considering some of the junk that's on movie screens today, maybe that's not true!). She was popular with her (mostly) female fan base, and it was that base that wanted her to keep on playing vamps.

Bara is one of those actresses with so many "ifs" about her. If Fox hadn't chained her to a treadmill, if her scripts had been better, if she'd had more directors like Raoul Walsh (the two of them got along wonderfully), if Brabin hadn't kept her home. . .well, who knows what she might have become?

BTW, if you could, spadeneal, I'd love a copy of that radio piece to add to my collection

[T0m M]

I'll agreee with barafan completely, and also say that by the time her Fox contract was up, she was also married to Charles Brabin and he was an "old school" kind of guy who did not want her working anymore. I'm sure that she was glad to have some time off for a few months after her grueling Fox schedule...

I was always under the impression that Bara didn't marry Brabin until a couple years after her Fox contract expired, so I don't believe marriage was a factor, though she may not have liked the "no marriage" clause in her contract.

While she may have been tired, I've always speculated it was more a case of her and Fox being mutually tired of each other, because she went on tour with The Blue Flame the following year and continued to pursue film comebacks. Had she just wanted a few months vacation and a less hectic schedule, it could have been negotiated and written into a new contract.

[Jim Roots]

I know Hal Erickson is on this list, and he wrote the following in his Theda Bara bio for Rovi.

Her somewhat overripe histrionics became out of fashion by 1920, so she retired from acting to married life; Bara resurfaced in a "so bad it's good" Broadway play The Blue Flame, then made an unsuccessful film comeback attempt in 1925. Her last screen work was in a two-reel lampoon of her vamp character, Madame Mystery (1926), directed by, of all people, Stan Laurel

[snip]

And why "by of all people" Stan Laurel? Stan directed about a dozen comedy shorts and was pretty good at it, I understand. No malice intended; just asking.

spadeneal

I wonder if Hal was getting in a dig at Glenn Mitchell? I just now happened to read Mitchell's entry on Stan in his book, A-Z of Silent Film Comedy, and here's what he writes:

"[Laurel] directed James Finlayson in his short-lived run as star, was given a similarly doomed task with Clyde Cook, serving also as director for Mabel Normand and, of all people, Theda Bara." (p. 148)

Jim

[misspickford9]

When Joan Craig (Theda's almost daughter) gets her book out I'm sure it will change a lot of these perceptions. She is likely the last person alive to have seen pretty much all of her films.

The intensity of Theda in the few clips and photos we have hint at something we direly lost. A Fool There was, East Lynne etc are her really early films, hard to go off. The rest are her really late films, where she was good but no sex kitten of 1918.

God somebody build a time machine now. I bet if her films existed she'd be put in the Valentino box: sexy and talented but 'serious enthusiast' would be hardpressed to give a damn about her because it would be declasse.

[Brooksie]

While she may have been tired, I've always speculated it was more a case of her and Fox being mutually tired of each other, because she went on tour with The Blue Flame the following year and continued to pursue film comebacks. Had she just wanted a few months vacation and a less hectic schedule, it could have been negotiated and written into a new contract.

I believe she was more tired of being a vamp than of acting per se. Here she is, quoted in `Picture Show' (UK) in 1920:

“I hope my vamping days are over, and that in future I shall be able to to portray such women as you and I know - genuine women, their trials, joys and sorrows. Not all my pictures have been about vampires, you know - `Under Two Flags’ and `Kathleen Mavourneen’, for instance - and I am glad to say that in Australia, where these two films have been shown, I am not known as a vampire at all, but simply as an ordinary film star who plays natural roles, and this is how I want to be known in future, when I take up film work again”

She wasn't accurate in her assumptions about Australia (although her non-vamp roles did appear to be better received here than elsewhere) but the point is that she fully intended to keep working in film. She was still announcing comeback plans as late as 1936.

It sounds like she was a card in real life - very self deprecating. I could imagine her fitting in very well into one of those Billie Burke or Marie Dressler dowager roles of the early 30s, provided she had the ability. I would dearly love to be able to see `Madame Mystery' to at least get some idea. All I know is that my great-grandmother particularly recorded in her diary how good she was in `Cleopatra' ...

[T0m M]

When Joan Craig (Theda's almost daughter) gets her book out I'm sure it will change a lot of these perceptions. She is likely the last person alive to have seen pretty much all of her films...

I don't know as I would apply too much credibility to first hand information and screenings from someone who would have been all of 14 years old at the time of Theda's death, 16 if it came from Brabin in his final year. There will be the clouds of 50+ years and the rose tint which will be hard to avoid, given their relationship. Finally, I am going to have issues with purchasing a book written by someone who auctioned off the rare movie memorabilia presented to her by Theda. If we want an an accurate assessment of Theda's films, we are probably best served by referencing contemporary reviews and box office records.

[spadeneal]

BTW, if you could, spadeneal, I'd love a copy of that radio piece to add to my collection

Indeed, once it airs (later this month, maybe the 26th) I will post an mp3 link to the piece here. I went to your site, which I have seen before, but not in awhile, and read your bio. We read the same sources, and yet highlighted entirely different material. Theda's life and career is far too complex to be considered under one roof, and I'm surprised that it is pushed so far in the background these days.

spadeneal

[spadeneal]

I have learned that my radio documentary about Theda Bara will air tomorrow, sometime during an hour-long program "Around Cincinnati" that begins to air at 7pm ET tomorrow night at:

http://www.wvxu.org/

I usually get an mp3 link to the segment after it airs, so I will post this also once I have it.

AND -- the broadcast is timely for a most unwelcome reason. Theda had two buildings on WVXU campus; her childhood home and another one she built in the in the 1920s. The second one was torn down on Thursday:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2011 ... 107070311/

spadeneal

[misspickford9]

Tom M: For starters if she wanted to just make a name off of herself, why the heck would she do it now, I believe she's in her 80s? And she's well aware its not something that will make her famous or a ton of money, and unlike Minta Durfee she has no concerns of getting her name up near the spotlight again (she's lived a normal life.) The time to profit off a story just to profit off of it would have been the 60s or 70s...

That aside I also trust her reminisces more because 1) anything could be verified via some short research (scripts, contemporary reviews, stills, etc), and unlike a movie critic in 1918 its not like she wrote it just to be hip. The modern critics (or even 50s critics) who write Theda off as an actress do so based on her photos, later memories, and the one film of hers that's been available all these years, with a dash of self loathing towards silents for good measure (the 50s, not modern types.)

That being said she auctioned off her mementos because they were in dire need of care and repair, and she did not have the money to do it. The Madam DuBarry costume is with someone now who has the know how and love to repair it. Joan still cares quite deeply. I don't blame her, if I had say Mary Pickford's Coquette gown in my closet, and I made as much money as any normal person, I'd want it somewhere it could be taken care of as well.

Heck that DuBarry costume is getting better treatment than Theda's films ever did...

[spadeneal]

As promised, here's the direct link to the radio seg:

http://198.234.121.108/aroundcincinnati ... daBara.mp3

[Bob Birchard]

When Joan Craig (Theda's almost daughter) gets her book out I'm sure it will change a lot of these perceptions. She is likely the last person alive to have seen pretty much all of her films...

I don't know as I would apply too much credibility to first hand information and screenings from someone who would have been all of 14 years old at the time of Theda's death, 16 if it came from Brabin in his final year. There will be the clouds of 50+ years and the rose tint which will be hard to avoid, given their relationship. Finally, I am going to have issues with purchasing a book written by someone who auctioned off the rare movie memorabilia presented to her by Theda. If we want an an accurate assessment of Theda's films, we are probably best served by referencing contemporary reviews and box office records.

When I interviewed Joan Craig, this is what she had to say about seeing Theda Bara's films: “Theda and Uncle Charlie [Brabin] tried to run her films at their house for me. The house on Alpine Drive had a little turret, with a door that went into a closet and stairs down to the basement. They had a lot of reels and they got them all out and set up a projector. But when uncle Charlie started to run the projector, it started smoking and he shut off the machine. Many of the prints were shrunken and cracked. Some were powder. They were no good at all. They were absolutely a fire hazard. Unrecoverable. Theda went into a tizzy because I guess they might have been the last prints left.”

[sepiatone]

I was watching the pilot episode of "That Girl'', 1965 never aired, starring Marlo Thomas on the Youtube. In the show Thomas plays a girl called Ann Marie. She meets the guy who will turn out to be her long running boyfriend, Donald who is a talent agent. Well Ann Marie wants to be a star and Donald recommends she change her name at once. Ann can't come up with anything that will please her parents, so one night she holds a party with some girlfriends and during a round of name suggestions one girl blurts out the name THEDA BARA, to the laughter of the audience track. Bara had been dead about ten years but some writer for the show thought enough of her to give her a nod on Marlo's show. A nice touch which I enjoyed.

[FrankFay]

Theda Bara was never quite forgotten, even if she only turned into a symbol. In 1965 Gilligan's Island had an episode where they discover crates of movie equipment and costume- they immediately dress as Mary Pickford, Theda Bara, Rudolph Valentino and Charlie Chaplin.