20TH CENTURY (1934) I (pretty much) hated it.

[FrankFay]

Just finished seeing this on TCM. I was salivating over seeing it, but I don't feel the dish was to my taste. I had such expectations: superb script, a dream cast, expert direction. Unfortunately Barrymore and Lombard (especially Lombard) wound themselves into a state of hysteria and spent 90 minutes shouting, screaming and ranting with barely a pause for breath. After a while it just wasn't funny. I was waiting for one of them to show a moment of real feeling that would play against all the elaborate falseness, but NO- they ended up as two egotistical fakes who both deserved to be pushed off the speeding train to a horrible death.

On the good side...it was nice to see Dale Fuller, also Roscoe Karns and Walter Connolly did some of the best work I've ever seen them do.

OK- I've got this off my chest and can sleep. Fling your brickbats, I'll read them in the morning.

[gjohnson]

The movie's charm is the fact that they are such theatrical phonies that nobody else could deal with them. They deserve each other. And no room for any so-called real emotions creeping in either. They are not capable of having a true human moment because they are too wrapped up with themselves - hence why they deserve each other.

That's why I also enjoy the 1937 programmer IT'S LOVE I'M AFTER with Bette Davis and Leslie Howard as a theatrical couple constantly warring with each other because of their temperament and ego. By the end when it looks like they will break up for good they are back together, not because of a sentimental romantic confession but because they won't change and, once again, they deserve each other.

Sometimes the cynic in me needs to fore-go the climatic declarations of true love in a comedy, irregardless of what had taken place earlier. You'll notice that in Hawk's comedies that rarely happens. He keeps his characters true to themselves right up to the conclusion. There is not a more satisfying ending than HIS GIRL FRIDAY when Hildy has had it with Walters constant lies and scams and breaks down crying. His tender words of comfort amount to "Whaddaya think, I'm a sap? I didn't want to lose you." And with that she instantly perks up and as the film fades out she is once again carry the bags and holding doors for Walter as he prattles on about their next reporting assignment.

And I can't think of a more romantic ending than that.

[mndean]

Just finished seeing this on TCM. I was salivating over seeing it, but I don't feel the dish was to my taste. I had such expectations: superb script, a dream cast, expert direction. Unfortunately Barrymore and Lombard (especially Lombard) wound themselves into a state of hysteria and spent 90 minutes shouting, screaming and ranting with barely a pause for breath. After a while it just wasn't funny. I was waiting for one of them to show a moment of real feeling that would play against all the elaborate falseness, but NO- they ended up as two egotistical fakes who both deserved to be pushed off the speeding train to a horrible death.

On the good side...it was nice to see Dale Fuller, also Roscoe Karns and Walter Connolly did some of the best work I've ever seen them do.

OK- I've got this off my chest and can sleep. Fling your brickbats, I'll read them in the morning.

Sadly, the emoticon I'd like to use isn't available here. Relax, it's not a rude one, just blue with a scowl, shaking its head. You honestly expected two theatrical phonies to show real feeling, especially in screwball comedy? I've also never watched Hawks for the humanity he brings. To me Barrymore and Lombard are both insufferable, that's why they deserve each other. Barrymore often played twisted characters, so here's another. We're never asked to like either of them. I've seen other films I've enjoyed with characters that aren't likable (Remember Last Night? is one, almost nobody in that is likable).

In closing, ANATHEMA!!!

[FrankFay]

You're both right...but all the SCREAMING.

[drednm]

Or Gloria Swanson and John Boles bickering their way through Music in the Air.

[Doug Sulpy]

Just finished seeing this on TCM. I was salivating over seeing it, but I don't feel the dish was to my taste. I had such expectations: superb script, a dream cast, expert direction. Unfortunately Barrymore and Lombard (especially Lombard) wound themselves into a state of hysteria and spent 90 minutes shouting, screaming and ranting with barely a pause for breath. After a while it just wasn't funny. I was waiting for one of them to show a moment of real feeling that would play against all the elaborate falseness, but NO- they ended up as two egotistical fakes who both deserved to be pushed off the speeding train to a horrible death.

I remember having much the same reaction. The only difference is that I own the DVD, so I can put it on and not like it again anytime I please (sigh).

[FrankFay]

Or Gloria Swanson and John Boles bickering their way through Music in the Air.

Now that I could take- it wasn't a constant assault and there was a buildup and structure to the arguments. BTW- Boles was actually very funny, he'd have been good in screwball films.

[Frederica]

Or Gloria Swanson and John Boles bickering their way through Music in the Air.

Now that I could take- it wasn't a constant assault and there was a buildup and structure to the arguments. BTW- Boles was actually very funny, he'd have been good in screwball films.

Oh well, different strokes. I love 20th Century, mainly because of the screaming.

[R Michael Pyle]

Or Gloria Swanson and John Boles bickering their way through Music in the Air.

Now that I could take- it wasn't a constant assault and there was a buildup and structure to the arguments. BTW- Boles was actually very funny, he'd have been good in screwball films.

Oh well, different strokes. I love 20th Century, mainly because of the screaming.

I'm there with you, Frederica! Love the show. I'm also with whomever couldn't stand the Boles/Swanson show. One of the worst I've ever tried to watch. Have never yet made it to the end. Have no desire to do so, either. But "Twentieth Century"? Bring it on - again and again.

[Gene Zonarich]

I love 20th Century, mainly because of the screaming.

I "like" 20th Century, only because of the hotness that was Carole Lombard in 1934.

I've never been a fan of 30s screwball comedy, at least not the kind where screaming seems to be basis of the plot. I think of them more as writers films, in the sense that they were showing off their writing talents and just trying to see how many words they could cram in to each second (sort of the "Charlie Parkers" of screenwriting) and how many lines of dialogue would be unfinished and trampled upon by another's line, then ratchet up the volume and, bingo you've got "screwball comedy."

Here's another crazy opinion: I get the impression that screwball comedy arose out of the newly imposed restrictions of the Production Code (I'm not sure how 20th Century fits in since it was a 1934 release, right on the cusp). It seems as if they try to cram in a lot of verbosity with possibly a few double entendres that will get stepped on by another line and are saying to themselves and the brighter audience members, "the censors will never catch us, isnt this fun?"

It reminds me of how in the "Broadway Melody" you heard all this extraneous noise, music, street sounds and that idiotic title song 6 times in the first ten minutes, as if trumpeting "look at this, the all talking all singing big noise picture of all time!"

Actually the screwballs I like are along the lines of the Barbara Stanwyck, Henry Fonda entries in this genre, like "Ball of Fire," "The Lady Eve," and (maybe) "Mad Miss Manton." Less yelling, more laughs.

[mndean]

I love 20th Century, mainly because of the screaming.

I "like" 20th Century, only because of the hotness that was Carole Lombard in 1934.

I've never been a fan of 30s screwball comedy, at least not the kind where screaming seems to be basis of the plot. I think of them more as writers films, in the sense that they were showing off their writing talents and just trying to see how many words they could cram in to each second (sort of the "Charlie Parkers" of screenwriting) and how many lines of dialogue would be unfinished and trampled upon by another's line, then ratchet up the volume and, bingo you've got "screwball comedy."

Here's another crazy opinion: I get the impression that screwball comedy arose out of the newly imposed restrictions of the Production Code (I'm not sure how 20th Century fits in since it was a 1934 release, right on the cusp). It seems as if they try to cram in a lot of verbosity with possibly a few double entendres that will get stepped on by another line and are saying to themselves and the brighter audience members, "the censors will never catch us, isnt this fun?"

It reminds me of how in the "Broadway Melody" you heard all this extraneous noise, music, street sounds and that idiotic title song 6 times in the first ten minutes, as if trumpeting "look at this, the all talking all singing big noise picture of all time!"

Actually the screwballs I like are along the lines of the Barbara Stanwyck, Henry Fonda entries in this genre, like "Ball of Fire," "The Lady Eve," and (maybe) "Mad Miss Manton." Less yelling, more laughs.

I like squabbling screwball couples! Not just 20th Century and the aforementioned It's Love I'm After, but also The Moon's Our Home, The Awful Truth, and more I can't list right now. Beating Breen was an honorable game, if you ask me. It wasn't always done with style, I grant. Now, if you pin me down I may say I prefer the tougher, saltier romantic comedies of precode (how about Goodbye Again as an example?), but really it's only by degree.

[fwtep]

Just finished seeing this on TCM. I was salivating over seeing it, but I don't feel the dish was to my taste.

That's it, I close the iron door on you!

[drednm]

Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy in Sweethearts, Lombard and Fredric March in Nothing Sacred, and maybe even Barbra Streisand and George Segal in The Owl and the Pussycat?

[Ray Faiola]

A great picture. with devious and delicious turns by both stars and a wonderful bizarre performance by Etienne Giradot. Not to mention Charles Lane with his original beak!

[Harlett O'Dowd]

Or Gloria Swanson and John Boles bickering their way through Music in the Air.

Now that I could take- it wasn't a constant assault and there was a buildup and structure to the arguments. BTW- Boles was actually very funny, he'd have been good in screwball films.

Oh well, different strokes. I love 20th Century, mainly because of the screaming.

The stage musical - On the Twentieth Century - is, IMHO, even better. Oh to sing Oscar Jaffe some day.

[bobfells]

TWENTIETH CENTURY is one of only two talkies that supports John Barrymore's reputation as one of the greatest actors of his time. The other film is COUNSELOR AT LAW, directed by William Wyler. The former establishes JB's credentials as a farceur par excellence, and the latter as a compelling dramatic actor. The irony is that both films were made as one-shot deals when the studios were increasingly reluctant to offer JB a long term contract. Universal paid him $25,000 a week with only a two-week guarantee and told Wyler to film only Barrymore scenes and finished with him in two weeks. Even Uncle Carl couldn't complain about the brisk efficiency but the two-week limit was impossible and JB eked another week or so out of the project.

TWENTIETH CENTURY is a very cynical film and none of the characters "grow" in the sense of becoming better people. Lombard starts off as a sweet young thing and evolves into a female Oscar Jaffe - compared to IT HAPPENED ONE NIGHT where the principal characters start off as rather obnoxious but grow into more considerate people. Both films are great but for very different reasons.

Incidentally, COUNSELLOR AT LAW required JB to return to Universal for a brief retake but he could not retain the lines in his memory. Legend claims that Wyler went through 50 takes before giving up but the director later said it probably wasn't any more than 25(!). They reconvened the next day and JB was letter perfect in the very first take but it was the beginning of his end as a major star. Some observers believe that JB had memory issues for some time prior to this incident and that's why he never appeared on stage after 1925 although announcements would be made, especially his planned HAMLET in the Hollywood Bowl over Labor Day 1928.

[gjohnson]

Barrymore was off the screen for two years after TWENTIETH CENTURY. When he returned he was suddenly working supporting roles. That must of been a hell of a bender he went on.

I find most of Barrymore's starring talkies quite interesting because of his presence (Outside of MOBY DICK, which was just silly). I wouldn't have to whittle it down to just two. His performance in RASPUTIN AND THE EMPRESS is very poignant as a military man trying desperately to protect both the Royal Family and his country itself. And that was in a role that was supposedly being overshadowed by his two siblings.

I think the reason you are so enamored with the two films that you choose Bob, is because they were made by top directors, something Barrymore rarely got.

[FrankFay]

COUNCILLOR AT LAW is a good strong dramatic role for Barrymore, as well as an excellent part for Bebe Daniels. The picture shows how strong an impression Barrymore could make in a straight dramatic role. When he came back after the long absence his looks had faded along with his memory and he was often stuck with playing eccentrics.

[silentkermy]

i also liked it bcuz of the screaming, i dont own it and watching it once was enough but i prefer john in silents, and lombard is good but i think i prefer her in nothing sacred.

[Brooksie]

Here's another crazy opinion: I get the impression that screwball comedy arose out of the newly imposed restrictions of the Production Code

That's not a new theory, but I do think it's an accurate one. The whole deal became about making films that were simultaneously uncensorable, and yet all about sex. There's a certain appeal to that, but I prefer frankness to games about getting around frankness. There's an inconsequentiality to screwball that can make it hard to love.

COUNCILLOR AT LAW is a good strong dramatic role for Barrymore, as well as an excellent part for Bebe Daniels. The picture shows how strong an impression Barrymore could make in a straight dramatic role.

I couldn't agree more, and it's a reminder of just what an actor Barrymore was. The tragedy and farce of his last years did such damage to his reputation that I almost wish he'd fallen off a cliff in the mid 30's and left his repute as an actor more or less intact. Given the condition he was in, it's almost a wonder he didn't.

[bobfells]

GJohnson said:
I think the reason you are so enamored with the two films that you choose Bob, is because they were made by top directors, something Barrymore rarely got.

Not really. Neither Wyler nor Hawks are among my favorite directors although DODSWORTH is one of my all-time fav films. As other posters have indicated, COUNSELLOR is just a superb film and it's no coincidence that a (future) top director helmed it. Take a look any any stars' top films and you'll find that their very best films are made by the best directors. John Wayne is a particularly good example. John Barrymore was no exception.

BTW, re MOBY DICK, forget Melville and think Jack London and the film works rather nicely.

[FrankFay]

BTW, re MOBY DICK, forget Melville and think Jack London and the film works rather nicely.

It does have it's moments (and some of them are good in a cheesy way) and Barrymore's performance improves once Ahab looses his leg. I wish they'd had someone besides Lloyd Ingram in it though. He was a handsome juvenile in silents (and downright charming in IRENE) in bad guy parts like this and THE SEA HAWK I think he comes off more as a petulant teenager than a credible villain. To me there's an almost palpable air of uncomfort.

I would prefer even a bad Lloyd Ingram performance to nearly anything from Malcolm MacDowell. Why he had such a substantial career at Universal and MGM is a mystery to me. He's a handsome piece of wood.

[gjohnson]

BTW, re MOBY DICK, forget Melville and think Jack London and the film works rather nicely.

It's still a silly film....

[mndean]

Here's another crazy opinion: I get the impression that screwball comedy arose out of the newly imposed restrictions of the Production Code

That's not a new theory, but I do think it's an accurate one. The whole deal became about making films that were simultaneously uncensorable, and yet all about sex. There's a certain appeal to that, but I prefer frankness to games about getting around frankness. There's an inconsequentiality to screwball that can make it hard to love.

COUNCILLOR AT LAW is a good strong dramatic role for Barrymore, as well as an excellent part for Bebe Daniels. The picture shows how strong an impression Barrymore could make in a straight dramatic role.

I couldn't agree more, and it's a reminder of just what an actor Barrymore was. The tragedy and farce of his last years did such damage to his reputation that I almost wish he'd fallen off a cliff in the mid 30's and left his repute as an actor more or less intact. Given the condition he was in, it's almost a wonder he didn't.

Blame Breen, not screwball for the lack of frankness. It wasn't going to happen on his watch.

Fred Allen once made a rather cruel joke about Barrymore around 1941, saying he was "now stooging for Rudy Vallee".

[dr.giraud]

COUNCILLOR AT LAW is a good strong dramatic role for Barrymore, as well as an excellent part for Bebe Daniels. The picture shows how strong an impression Barrymore could make in a straight dramatic role. When he came back after the long absence his looks had faded along with his memory and he was often stuck with playing eccentrics.

True. He's still a scene stealer, though, in MARIE ANTOINETTE and MIDNIGHT.

[sepiatone]

I wish they'd had someone besides Lloyd Ingram in it though.

I would prefer even a bad Lloyd Ingram performance to nearly anything from Malcolm MacDowell. Why he had such a substantial career at Universal and MGM is a mystery to me. He's a handsome piece of wood.

Frank
I think you mean Lloyd Hughes. Lloyd Ingram, a generation older than Hughes born in 1874, WAS an actor and a director as well responsible for such wonderful drek as THE ISLE OF LOVE(aka OVER THE RHINE)1918.

Malcolm MacDowell can be a forceful actor when he wants to be. Usually people like to quote A CLOCKWORK ORANGE, but check out MacDowell as the squadron commander in ACE'S HIGH(1976/77) a little seen war film with Christopher Plummer. He should've played more military guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu5x8rOxK44

[sepiatone]

I just finished watching James Cagney and Doris Day in LOVE ME OR LEAVE ME(1955) and for all intensive purposes, it's the same story as TWENTIETH CENTURY with a love hate relationship. Cagney and Day, as real life singer Ruth Etting and her thuggish manager, Marty 'the gimp', do a lot of screaming and it's more the disheartening because it's based on a real story. Barrymore and Lombard and their costars at least are basically cutting up, grown up kiddies in a grown up kindergarten. I loved it.

An interesting statement made by one of the writers on allmovie(now allrovi.com) under the Barrymore / Neilan silent THE LOTUS EATER. The writer said that Neilan was basically anticipating the screwball comedy with THE LOTUS EATER, more than a decade befor e screwballs became popular. Interesting to say that on film he/she hadn't seen cause it's lost.

[sepiatone]

Blame Breen, not screwball for the lack of frankness. It wasn't going to happen on his watch.

Fred Allen once made a rather cruel joke about Barrymore around 1941, saying he was "now stooging for Rudy Vallee".

Fred Allen had head up his a**, and the same thing could be said about Barrymore biographer and pal Gene Fowler, who sort of trashed his friend's comedic talents in order to praise the serious drama and Shakespeare. These guys tend to forget Barrymore started out in comedy on the stage, continued with it until his first movies about 1913. Once in the movie world he made about a dozen films that were all comedies based on plays he had appeared in or was familiar with. The man ended in comedy as he had begun in comedy and theres nothing wrong with that.

[IA]

TWENTIETH CENTURY is one of only two talkies that supports John Barrymore's reputation as one of the greatest actors of his time.

They're just his two best movies, and since they get the most attention due to their directors, they're what people tend to think of when think of Barrymore's most prominent performances. But you can be a great actor and still star in non-great material. Barrymore was a great actor because he could be magnetic even in utter trash. There's a moment in Playmates, an otherwise putrid film, where he recites Hamlet's "To Be or Not to Be" soliloquy, and it's quite likely the best version caught on film.
Barrymore also did superb work in good films like State's Attorney, Topaze, Reunion in Vienna, True Confession, and The Great Man Votes. He would regarded as a first-rate screen actor based on those performances alone. Unfortunately, all but one of those films are unavailable on DVD.

The man ended in comedy as he had begun in comedy and theres nothing wrong with that.

Exactly. His later comedic roles may have not been Hamlet, but in many of them (such as Midnight) you can see an actor who's truly enjoying himself.

[mndean]

Blame Breen, not screwball for the lack of frankness. It wasn't going to happen on his watch.

Fred Allen once made a rather cruel joke about Barrymore around 1941, saying he was "now stooging for Rudy Vallee".

Fred Allen had head up his a**, and the same thing could be said about Barrymore biographer and pal Gene Fowler, who sort of trashed his friend's comedic talents in order to praise the serious drama and Shakespeare. These guys tend to forget Barrymore started out in comedy on the stage, continued with it until his first movies about 1913. Once in the movie world he made about a dozen films that were all comedies based on plays he had appeared in or was familiar with. The man ended in comedy as he had begun in comedy and theres nothing wrong with that.

Allen was merely making a joke, perhaps tasteless but a joke just the same (this was in '41 - Allen said it on his "Jack Benny's 10th anniversary on radio" show). It was also true that roles for Barrymore dried up by then.